Starting horse in roundpen - he charges and tries to kick you
We are trying to start our 4 yr gelding in the roundpen. He's typically very laid back, typically not at the top of the pecking order, we can saddle him, pony him with other horses. He did "ok" on the lunge line outside of the pen - not great - but we only tried 1ce and decided to start in the roundpen.
We've tried to get him to respond in the roundpen - but instead of running around the pen - he charges at you and tries to turn and kick us. We have no option but to move even though we're swinging the rope and trying to push him where we'd like him to go.
Obviously - we should be doing something slightly different. We've watched Clinton Anderson's video's till we're blue and had success with our previous horse...not sure what's up with this one.
I have this issue myself on show days. It's a matter of respect. The horse does not respect you. He is intimidating you. Do you have a whip? I don't know if my way of dealing with the issue is the correct way but it is really starting to work for me. I think you need to put the horse back on the longe line for now.
With my horse, when he comes towards me, I push him out by shaking my longe line and saying out. (that doesn't really work for me at this point but it is what you should be able to do once he's trained). When he doesn't move out I whip towards his shoulder and sometimes face. I have made contact, once. It's all I've had to do. Now I just need to move the whip towards the shoulder and he moves out. When he charges you and kicks towards you, you have to move him out and you need to be able to do it safely which is why the whip comes in handy. The whip does not hurt the horse. I mean it stings if you make contact but it's not a big deal.
If you are an NH person then it should still fall into those guidelines because you are basically acting as the alpha horse by pinning your ears and barring your teeth. Sometimes you have to bite to get your point across.
We did use a training stick - which is a 4 ft stick with a 5 ft rope attached with a leather strap at the end. But it's certainly not an actual whip. The stick/rope didn't seem to phase him.
One thing we noticed, and a close friend also thought, is he does this when we take him away from the other horses. He did this same thing to me when in a side pen when I was just trying to get him out of the way when we were working in the big pen. He hates to be separated.
I definately agree about the disrespect issue. My girlfriend says he's just not giving up his union card. LOL.
We will give it a try with the whip and see if that gets his attention. Any other suggestions?
I am not a big fan of whips. I am a bigger fan of using a long, heavy lead-rope or just jerking the lead-rope on the halter until the horse gets back convincingly.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER threaten a horse with anything you are not willing and ready to actually hit him with.
Teaching a horse basic manners works best like this:
1) ASK a horse to do something (like move a certain direction). If he does not comply --
2) TELL him in a much more forceful way. If he still does not comply (or does not comply willingly and quickly) --
3) MAKE HIM WISH HE HAD DONE IT THE FIRST TIME YOU ASKED!
This is what horses understand. It does not work to just threaten them or 'peck' at them. This angers them and they will hold that person in great disdain. This is when they attack, bite, paw or kick people. They not only have no respect, they develop a great hatred for those that threaten and peck at them.
I do not make the rules. I just know how they work. You cannot love, pet, treat, cajole, threaten or peck a horse into wanting to do what you want or to have respect for you.
If a horse charges and kicks at me, I'm gonna knock the hell out of him. For goodness sakes people, there have been lots of good horses sent to the packers because they intimidated people and became "outlaws". If you want Natural Horsemanship, just remember that another horse would kick the snot out of him, so what's more natural than what another horse would do?
Just my 2 cents, doesn't mean anything
AGREE AGREE AGREE AGREE!!!!!!
That is the natural sequence in the pecking order of the herd, how much more "natural horsemanship" can you ask for??
Forget the natural horsemanship vs. trainer vs. whatever, that is the 3 step method that WORKS, no matter what the title.
If what you have been doing with him before attempting to round pen him then consider going back to what worked. It's nice that all the big name trainers use them but bazillions of horses have been trained without them.
I didn't have to deal with quite this respect issue, but I did have to deal with a big 17.1 TB who KNEW he was big and I was short trying to push his weight around at the gate---when I tried to push him around, he tried to bite me, and it happened to land near my eye.
I took his butt right into the round pen and his stupid self set the pace to canter--well we cantered for about 6 or 7 minutes, changing directions every time he wanted to slow down, and when he turned he kicked out at me. The first time I left a clean spot on his butt from where the string end had been, and then the second and third time was just a little reminder snap right on his butt. We stopped when he didn't kick at me anymore and listened when I said whoa. He was a much nicer horse after that, not just immediately after (you would have thought he was half dead, his head was low and he was licking and chewing and he walked right next to me the whole trek back to his stall) but in general he listened a lot better.
I have a 3 yr old gelding. He can get a little pushy. my friend was leading him and he went up on her (reared up) and yanked the rope she let it go and he took off (she wasnt going fast enough for his liking) i got a hold of him and did a bit of leading, as soon as i stopped if he invaded my space i backed him away really quick.
In the yards if hes loose and comes at me i flap him away with my arms. When hes crowding me and im putting out his feed i push him away until i am ready for him to come in.
I make him know that yes hes bigger then me but I AM IN CHARGE. if he does overstep too far i make him go around and around and around until hes ready to listen.
I have on hand:
headstall and long lead with leather on the end
hes learnt to keep out of my bubble.
hes bitten my partner a few times until he complained to me the horse bite him i told him next time smack him. he complained but saw the horse bite at me once (only grazed me) i got him a good one and hes not done it since.
I worked with an off track tb gelding at riding for the disabled. beautiful horse except girthing, when you girth him he usually needed 2 people one to girth one to hold his head to stop him biting (a roll over from the track girthing)
he swung at me once i smacked him, after that it was "Sam tack Bell up" every day before his lessons and "am deal with Bell" after his lessons.
noone else would smack him but i wont tolerate any animal biting growling snarling kicking anything. my pup just learnt this when hes eating i pat his face put my fingers in his food while he is eating rub chet etc he growls i smacked he bit once he lost the remainder of his breakfast. tonight i didnt even get a growl.
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