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-   -   WooHoo! Tell it Mr. Trocha. (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/woohoo-tell-mr-trocha-93433/)

smrobs 07-29-2011 03:17 AM

WooHoo! Tell it Mr. Trocha.
 
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Horse Training… Serious 911

SocietyJoe 07-29-2011 04:38 AM

HA, no sugar coating that answer.

Everything he said is so true!

Doe 07-29-2011 05:57 AM

Afraid I'm a cynic and suspect that email was written by him for the purpose and not received as he said. (Not so) hidden agenda anyone?

It's shame that it's so much about money and egos and the values are being missed. He's bashing NH to push his own 'club', books etc, and yet he uses the same methods with his horses. Once again the them and us, whack 'em or fairy kisses mentality. I've got no issue with him bashing NH or anything else, but to bash something at least focus on what the problem is rather than just perpetuating confusion and ignorance.

Middle ground anyone?

maura 07-29-2011 07:53 AM

Doe,

Here's a step towards a middle ground.

First of all, for many reasons, I dislike the term NH whether it's self applied or applied by others. There's good horsemanship and there's bad horsemanship, neither is natural or unnatural.

Some of the self described natural horseman have very interesting insights into equine behavior, and very interesting methods, and we can learn from them. I may not want to endorse the entire method or program, but there are useful things I can incorporate with my own methods.

The self described NH people, particularly those who talk about "bonding" tend to appeal to a certain type of amatuer horseperson. In the hunter world, we would talk about those amateur in terms of 4 Fs - forty, fat, fearful and female.
Is the goofy woman in that email applying NH techniques correctly? Of course not. Is it the NH practitioner's fault? No. Is it really a valid example of the method? Nope. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of NH trainers or in general, people who want to sell DVDs, *know* that that's their market.

Some of them even exploit that market.

When I think of NH, I think of a 4F I know very carefully demonstrating some of the groundwork exercises from a training DVD and immediately afterward allowing the horse to walk all over her begging for handfed treats. She was blissfully unaware of the contridictions in her actions.

Does this make the excercise on the training DVD bad, wrong or less than useful? Nope. What it does mean is that it's pretty hard to turn a timid, tentative horsewoman with romantic delusions into an assertive, effective horsetrainer.

MHFoundation Quarters 07-29-2011 08:53 AM

I read this yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it!

Annnie31 07-29-2011 09:45 AM

If the trainer actually got a letter....and it contained the problems, and insight, he described then I would actually agree 100 percent with him. I do have a tendancy to think it was a bit of a tall tale tho.
As I have said before I study many and follow no one....and in this case I think Doe might be right about it being a bit of a hidden agenda.
Worst case scenario from NH type person vs Trainer? Mind you if you send your nice quiet horse out to a terrible trainer they can become a total basket case too, that doesnt mean no one should use a trainer either, and yes I have seen it happen.
Unfortunately most people look for trainers based on success. Whether it be Clinton Anderson who is world renowned or Stephen Reams of Ellerbe, North Carolina, who trained the mare that won the World show in Junior Western Pleasure, there are good and bad so called wanna be's in both training methods,
and another point I need to make is just because a trainer has won a class or two it doesnt make them a good trainer...its the how they got there that matters to the person needing their horse rode.
The worst problem of the whole darn training industry is that ordinary people with hopes and dreams for their ordinary horses end up having to decide who to send their horses to for training....and they dont always luck out with a good one in either.

kitten_Val 07-29-2011 09:48 AM

Actually, I don't think his email was all that bad. I didn't see anything offensive there.

Funny enough I contacted him years go to get his opinion on chronic rearer (NOT my horse, but the owner tried to push me on working with him), and he suggested to give up and get rid of him (very logical I have to say). The end result was that horse sent another rider to ER. I don't think they ever got rid of him though.

corinowalk 07-29-2011 09:48 AM

*claps hands* Love it.

flytobecat 07-29-2011 10:25 AM

Subbing

gigem88 07-29-2011 10:37 AM

Whether the email was genuine or not, he gave very good advice! I agree with him 1000000%!


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