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-   -   12% protien vs. 14%??? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-nutrition/12%25-protien-vs-14%25-93961/)

Wancata 08-03-2011 02:17 PM

12% protien vs. 14%???
 
Ok, so I have had my horse for 4 years now and he has always been on a 12% protien feed. When I first bought him, the barn I was at had a 14% feed that they swore by, but the high protien content made him a little hot and I was advised to bring him down to 12% to help with the twitchy edge the high protien seemed to give him. He has been on 12% ever since.

I recently moved to a barn that feeds Nutrina Safe Choice and they swear by its low sugar and starches. I figured since my horse would now be turned out on grass for almost 12 hours a day (he had never been on grass before and yes, he was appropritely weaned onto it), I could cut down the amount of grain he got and the 14% may not affect him the way it did 4 years ago.

However, the barn we moved from was a disaster and I am in the middle of treating an ulcer. And due to a hoof issue we had we are currently not working and haven't for over 2 months. So with all this, I feel the digestable energies in a 14% are just to much for my gelding. I asked the barn owner if he could order for me Tribute Kalm Ultra (a Kalmbach feed) that is a 12% that I really liked when he was on it. He said ok, and said that the grain guy they order from would do it, but he wanted to talk to me first. So I called him and he basically sales pitched me the Safe Choice. He also disagreed with me on the digestable energy of the protien content and said that horses dont get "hot" or their "energy source" from protien. They get it from the fats. But this is not what I have been taught by very knowledgable sources.

I use FeedXL to balance my horses diet and I cannot get a good diet with the Safe Choice. But did well with the Tribute. So what is it? 12% or 14% that made my horse a little hot? Also, he just doesn't eat the Safe Choice. He leaves a lot behind. Anyone know anything about this product? The grain guy claimed he might not be eating it because its hot outside or because he is full, but my horse has never left grain behind. And the ulcer shouldn't be affecting his appitie at his stage of treatment.

Any thoughts on this?

THANKS!!!!

Rachel1786 08-03-2011 02:29 PM

in my experience protein doesn't make horses hot, starches and sugars do. I have my TB on triple crowns 30% supplement, which is 30% protein and she is not hot at all on it, but when she was on Purina strategy she was so hot I could barley lead her, that is 14%, before I went to TC I used purina strategy healthy edge, which is 12.5, she was still hot on it but not as bad. Look at the ingredients of the feed and stay away from corn and oats to start, from what I understand they make horses hot. I have never used safe choice but i hear it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Wancata 08-03-2011 02:38 PM

Thanks Rachel, every channel I need to go through to get a new feed for my horse just wants to sell me on the Safe Choice. I don't need a sales pitch I just need another grain!

A friend of my who went to vetrinary school and works as an account Rep for VetSource told me that my gelding might be one of those horses that just can't do a 14%. Just like some horses out there can't touch a Sweet Feed. If its not the protien, what is it in 14% grains that aren't clicking with my horse?

Plus, he just doesn't eat it. And my horse is a cow! He eats just about anything. Is it possible that he just doesn't like it?

mls 08-03-2011 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wancata (Post 1123064)
I use FeedXL to balance my horses diet and I cannot get a good diet with the Safe Choice. But did well with the Tribute. So what is it? 12% or 14% that made my horse a little hot? Also, he just doesn't eat the Safe Choice. He leaves a lot behind. Anyone know anything about this product? The grain guy claimed he might not be eating it because its hot outside or because he is full, but my horse has never left grain behind. And the ulcer shouldn't be affecting his appitie at his stage of treatment.

Any thoughts on this?

THANKS!!!!

Protein does not make the horse "hot" - fat does. Excess protein is urinated out while the fat is stored for future use.

We've fed SafeChoice for years. Not one issue with unruly horses. We have also not had any palabilty problems expect for the ocassional bag that has too many 'fines' in it. We return those bags for a good bag.

What type of feeder? Is it clean? Can he see to eat or does he feel cornered? Does he have water to drink while he is eating?

Left Hand Percherons 08-03-2011 03:10 PM

Protein does not make a horse hot. Neither does Fat. Excess calories, starch and sugars make a horse have extra energy. Do not get hung up on the 12 vs 14%. How much total protein do the concentrates add to the overall diet? 6# of the 12% has .72# protein while 5# of 14% has virtually the identical amount at .7#. The amount of DE of a 12% and a 14% from the same manufacterer is going to be virtually identical as protein and CHO have the same calories per unit. The DE will go up when fat is increased because fat has 2.25X more calories than protein and CHO. To up the fat, they have to decrease one or the other.

I'm going to disagree that a horse being treated for ulcers, isn't going to be sensitive to some feeds and refuse to eat them. I tried to switch a mare with ulcers over to a RB and alfalfa pellets, both which should of been easier on her, and she never accepted them. There is probably something in the SC that he just doesn't care for. Heat and the stress from the move can play into it as well.

Wancata 08-03-2011 03:11 PM

He eats from a plastic corner feeder. Nothing different than what he's used to. It is clean and he has 2 water buckets available. It might be a little dark though, I mean I can peek in and see the grain in there but its not super lit or anything.

He's got suppliments in there he needs to be eating though, so if he's leaving that much grain behind, I'm worried he isn't getting all the suppliments he needs (he is on a hoof and joint). Should I maybe cut back the amount?

Wancata 08-03-2011 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Hand Percherons (Post 1123150)
Protein does not make a horse hot. Neither does Fat. Excess calories, starch and sugars make a horse have extra energy. Do not get hung up on the 12 vs 14%. How much total protein do the concentrates add to the overall diet? 6# of the 12% has .72# protein while 5# of 14% has virtually the identical amount at .7#. The amount of DE of a 12% and a 14% from the same manufacterer is going to be virtually identical as protein and CHO have the same calories per unit. The DE will go up when fat is increased because fat has 2.25X more calories than protein and CHO. To up the fat, they have to decrease one or the other.

I'm going to disagree that a horse being treated for ulcers, isn't going to be sensitive to some feeds and refuse to eat them. I tried to switch a mare with ulcers over to a RB and alfalfa pellets, both which should of been easier on her, and she never accepted them. There is probably something in the SC that he just doesn't care for. Heat and the stress from the move can play into it as well.

Im sorry but Im a little slow on the abbreviations! LOL...
What is CHO and RB? I got Safe Choice out of SC and Digestiable Energy out of DE.

I have been told that startchy feeds can bother a horse with an ulcer, but I am being told that Safe Choice is low starch by some people and the opposite for others. But I might have to agree that he might just not care for the safe choice. He would eat all the the Tribute when he was on it and all of the Sweet Feed he was on a while back. Its very strange that he won't eat the SC.

LetAGrlShowU 08-03-2011 04:02 PM

I cant speak from experience as I am not as knowledgable about ulcers or different feeds. I personally LOVE safechoice. NEVER has my horse left any behind. Moved my new horse onto it and he loves it too. Is it possible the supplements arewhat hes leaving behind? Some supplements are down right nasty, and the grain may be left because he cant sift through it.

Left Hand Percherons 08-03-2011 05:09 PM

carbohydrates and ration balancer.

Starches are supposed to aggrevate the ulcers. My mare wanted the high starch feed over the lower one. Safe to say they don't all follow the rules. Give him the supplements in 1/2 his ration than give him the rest when he's done.


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