One of the most ignorant, uninformed articles I've ever read... - Page 3
   

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One of the most ignorant, uninformed articles I've ever read...

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    04-17-2010, 12:19 AM
  #21
Weanling
I read the second article.

The part about woman being only attracted to appearance made me laugh (someone clearly has been burned in his relationships)

If only he knew it's actually men who are attracted to appearance. Women care more about a means wealth and career - all biologically speaking.


I found a line that sums it up
"As far as the cutting horse goes, that is pretty much equal to the reining nonsense, while it attracts people that do not have to know anything about horses to take part, since there is hardly any riding involved and the horse does the work while the fool has to hold on to the saddle in order not to fall off. "
     
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    04-17-2010, 01:30 AM
  #22
Trained
What?

He managed to bash cutting?

Yes, the horse does a lot of the work. That's what's supposed to happen...its like bloody sheepdog trials, you're showing off your great sheepdog and how well he or she can herd the sheep. In cutting, you're showing how well your horse can cut the cow. But who do you think taught them what to do? Who do you think put all that training into them just like any of those other decent horse out there? Do you think they ever even thought about how much work we put into it before we even enter the arena?

They can't honestly think the rider doesn't do any work, right? I mean, seriously? Is there an email address I can contact? I could have so uch fun with this.....his mind is ignorant and tortured I could spin him in circles and he wouldn't even know he'd just been showed up. That's sad.
     
    04-17-2010, 05:58 AM
  #23
Started
He must be a good writer if he's getting these types of responses from his readers!
     
    04-17-2010, 06:17 AM
  #24
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
They can't honestly think the rider doesn't do any work, right? I mean, seriously? Is there an email address I can contact? I could have so uch fun with this.....his mind is ignorant and tortured I could spin him in circles and he wouldn't even know he'd just been showed up. That's sad.
Yep - chessboard1-horseman@yahoo.com




Quote:
Originally Posted by White Foot    
He must be a good writer if he's getting these types of responses from his readers!
... Are you being sarcastic?
     
    04-17-2010, 09:36 AM
  #25
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylishK    
I found a line that sums it up
"As far as the cutting horse goes, that is pretty much equal to the reining nonsense, while it attracts people that do not have to know anything about horses to take part, since there is hardly any riding involved and the horse does the work while the fool has to hold on to the saddle in order not to fall off. "
He clearly has NEVER sat on a cutting horse while working a cow. First they are not east to ride second if you do not know about horses and even more about cattle you are not going to stay on no matter how well you ride and how much you strap yourself in and hang on. There is so much to truly riding a cutter. So basically the ones he has seen work are the best of the best if they made it look like they where just sitting there.
     
    04-17-2010, 11:15 AM
  #26
Trained
Thing is you would be matching wit with an un armed man.
     
    04-17-2010, 11:18 AM
  #27
Started
Solid Points

I've often wondered about the very points this person discusses in re: to reining - the slide & spin relate how to a working cow horse? Plus the stress on the entire pivot leg for the spin, even though horse picks it up & sets it down again in the spin, and the stress on his hocks in the slide. I've heard from some good horsepeople that they don't want to do these things with horses. I also don't find the author to be an extremist because he says the calves used in roping are none the worse for it. PETA'd ban roping! 1)Please don't bash people who are thinking of the welfare of the horse, as this author obviously is! 2)Please tell us where a person's wrong, for our edification; how does posting, "What an ignoramus!" help? I found his story about the 9 ruined horses for one champion to be tragic; didn't anyone else? I also like his point about writing from his experience rather than hearsay, emotionalism, profit motive, etc.
     
    04-17-2010, 11:56 AM
  #28
Weanling
The point is reining is no worse than any other event. How hard is jumping on a horses legs, how hard is racing on a horses legs...he seems to think Dressage is so easy on a horse too which likely isn't the case.

When it comes natural to the horse it isn't hard. Sliding plates make it safer for the horse. It's when you are spinning the horse incorrectly or stopping a horse incorrectly and too much you cause the issues. Spinning for my mare is SOO easy, she's built for it, she's bred for it, and she wants to do it. Same with stopping. Most reiners are very natural in wanting to put them bum under them when they stop, putting the plates on helps them actually slide without destroying there legs. Putting plates on a horse that doesn't want to do that and isn't bred to stop is VERY dangerous. So him thinking the plates make them slide is all wrong.

Look at the quote I pulled out about cutting. That section is why people are getting after him.

I don't care if he doesn't like reining that's fine. I don't care if he doesn't understand it. I don't care if he even questions it. But what I don't like is he talks like he knows the mechanics of it when clearly he doesnt. Not only is he opinionate about it, look at the way he writes - he even puts a jab at women too, offensive and rude. That's not a way to get your opinion across.

Straight up, he can have his opinions. But his facts are all wrong. And unfortunately uneducated horse lovers are going to look at that and then that creates hearsay and people who hate a sport when they have no idea what its all about.

I'm sure he's getting the reaction he's looking for.
     
    04-17-2010, 12:06 PM
  #29
Started
First off, every discipline I can think of has it's problems. At the end of the day, no matter what we do with our horses, riding itself is unnatural, and it's the job of the rider/owner/trainer to do what they can to pick up the slack that nature hasn't "planned for", so to speak. Support boots, good nutrition, a solid conditioning plan, etc. to prepare the horse for his job, whatever that may be.

I did read both articles.

I'm not impressed. The articles read like someone watched a few Youtube vids and didn't like what they saw. Certainly the writer is entitled to his opinion, but as far as swaying my mind, I would like to see evidence of research beyond anecdote. Back it up with evidence that shows that reining horses on average break down faster or worse than horses of other disciplines performing at equal caliber. I personally would want to see evidence, something along the lines of x-rays of a horse after, say, 5 years of reining training and competition vs. a horse after 5 years of racing, jumping, dressage, whatever. Writing an essay based on opinion and apparently isolated horror stories of worst-case-scenario situations isn't a good way to come across as credible, whether your concerns are founded or not.

Lol, I'm avoiding writing a research paper for school, can you tell?

Also, his apparent belief that roping/cowhorse events are better, I believe that many reiners are cross-trained on cattle?? Correct me if I'm wrong on that...
     
    04-17-2010, 12:33 PM
  #30
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern    
I've often wondered about the very points this person discusses in re: to reining - the slide & spin relate how to a working cow horse?

I will address several of your questions but first I have to ask. Do you even know the history behind reining. How and why it was started who and where the NRHA was formed??


Plus the stress on the entire pivot leg for the spin, even though horse picks it up & sets it down again in the spin, and the stress on his hocks in the slide.

This again is where sliders come in to play along with good footing and a horse who is bred and built for the job as hand. The stress is no different then the stress put on Dressage horses at the higher level. Just like any horse doing any discipline. If they are conformationally correct in good shape and keep up properly you rarely have any problems. I have horses who are in their 20's who are still sound. My reiners have all retired sound from years of reining. I can show you many many geldings who are still showing into their late teens early 20's with very little maintainable. Just like High levels of H/J and Dressage horses of the same age.

I've heard from some good horsepeople that they don't want to do these things with horses.

Just like many horse people who do not wish to do other events with their horses. I have no desire to do WP or Dressage with my horses. I love the control and finesse I have with my reiners. I love the fact that I can take any of my reiners and go and be competitive in many other events with no added training b/c they are so well trained.

I also don't find the author to be an extremist because he says the calves used in roping are none the worse for it.


I agree that calves used for Roping are non the worse for what they are used for. Think of what they would be as an alternative?? Around here we call them freezer meat.

PETA'd ban roping! 1)Please don't bash people who are thinking of the welfare of the horse, as this author obviously is!

I have no problem with people who have the horses best interest in mind.

2)Please tell us where a person's wrong, for our edification; how does posting, "What an ignoramus!" help? I found his story about the 9 ruined horses for one champion to be tragic; didn't anyone else?

If you have EVER competed in reining or cutting you would know where this mans ignorance comes into play.

Here just from his first statement about reining.
" I can think of no other recognized riding activity that causes injuries (usually permanent) in so many participating horses. "

Where is he getting his stats??? I see more lame horses at local H/J shows then I do at NRHA reining shows. I also see more horses with marked up sides and mouths at many many other events they you will EVER seen at a reining show. How many other disciplines do you see that REQUIRE you to drop bit to the judge??? How many other events do you see the judge walk ALL the way around a horse lift the stirrups and trail to make sure the horse has not been marked in any way from the show???


I also like his point about writing from his experience rather than hearsay, emotionalism, profit motive, etc.
From is statements he has no experience in these events. Here is just one example. He is addressing slide plates. From this statement it is quiet obvious that he has not true knowledge of what reining is or how and why plates are used.


(1)First the sliders DO NOT create the effect. What they do is make is safer for the horse to stop. These horses are bred to do this. They do it naturally in the pasture before they are ever trained. They stop like that plates or not. The plates make it safer for the horse to perform these maneuvers with less stress on their legs. The plates also help in the turns. It keeps the friction down and helps the horse pivot better and with less stress on their legs. Again this is natural to the horse. Watch a well bred reiner even as a foal. Even at the walk they will sit back and turn over their hocks when the change direction.

(2) This really shows his ignorance. How many reiners have you seen fall while performing circles in a reining pattern?? In my 15 years of reining I have seen 0. Now I have seen a few fall while circling a cow in reined cow horse. Reining is ALL about control. If the horse is running so fast that he is slipping he is not in control and will be marked down by the judge. Also sliders are used by reined cow horses. Likes stated above eve when chasing and turning the cow very few slip with their sliders on. These horses again know they have them on they know how they work and they know what they can and can not do in them. Again have you EVER watched a reiner playing in the field with sliders on?? I have all the time. They know what they can and can not do and I have yet to have one fall while playing with sliders on. I have had them fall when they have not had them on b/c they push things harder.

(3) Now this shows his ignorance more then any other statement I have seen him make of what I have read however I am sure it is not. First by this statement it is obvious he has no idea how reiners are trained or work. The only time you see then doing this is in a run down or picking up speed. Why do they do this?? B/c it is what is NEEDED to perform the stop correctly. The stop comes from the horse picking up speed and driving up under themselves more and more with each stride until they are asked to stop. IT comes from the way they are tough to collect and most of it again is natural to these horses.

"The sliding stop is dramatic and always excites the Reining audience who perceive the action as a skilled “accomplishment” when actually it is the (1)sliding plates that create the special effects for the cheering fans! The situation becomes even worse (for the horse) because after performing the sliding stop, (2)the same Reining horse is expected to run in circles at fast speeds relative to the limited space of the arena. In this case the sliding plates are a detriment, as the horse now needs traction to be able to perform such turns soundly and safe. (3) These horses often move their hind legs like roosters, picking them quicker (higher) off the ground and hysterically trying to set them under themselves (as they are slipping on the sliding plates) so they do not fall."

Again there are so many other areas that he shows he has no real clue as to what reining is or who it is trained or why reining is so much fun and is one of the fasted growing equine sports in the world.
     

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