Wheeeww, thank you guys. I have been thinking "Is this seriously how they get their horses to do all those spins and sliding stops? Screw that, I don't want any part of that" I am so happy that not all reiners are like that. The owner was doing the same thing the trainer was, and everyone there was on board with it (no pun intended). Thanks for the info on Les Vogt Cherie, I'm looking at his website right now. I'm also carefully rethinking everything I have learned in my 2 months at this barn. I'm kind of embarrassed that I assumed just because she owned a barn and a bunch of horses that she knew what she was doing. I'm pretty thankful for this forum today, thank you guys.