Seriously, you guys actually applaud horse tripping?
I wouldn't go that far. I can though appreciate their roping skills, as I am utterly hopeless at roping and can only imagine the time they've spent perfecting those skills. Could they be used in a kinder way, absolutely.
American rodeo is based on methods used & still used on working ranches to get a job done with a few other contests thrown in. What is tripping based on? Primitive methods of capturing wild horses perhaps?
This video is from Shark who is very biased & extreme but if it wasn't happening it couldn't be filmed.
Actually Mexican rodeo is based on ranch work. When the Spanish came in the 1600’s they were told to start breeding horses. Mexico became full of huge cattle and horse ranches as they were settling the land. Charreadas were competitions between haciendas much like ranch rodeos today.
Also I need to clarify, yes there still horse tripping. However it is banned in most states in the U.S.. They still do it, of course, in Mexico. It is their tradition there, who are we to tell them what to do in their country? That’s kinda like Hindus coming over here and telling us we can’t slaughter/eat dairy cattle.
The Charreada Federation that governs the larger rodeos that are held in the U.S. Do not endorse horse tripping. But just like anything else, there is always going to be the handful of people who are still going to do it. And just like in any animal involved sport there is going to abuse. The rodeos I have been to that horse rope- do not trip the horse. They stop them and turn them loose. Some of these rodeos were Charreadas and some were not.
Bubba, I read your post on the other thread and roping is an important part in keeping cattle healthy on a large ranch. How else are you going to doctor a yearling/calf/bull/cow when you are 30 miles away from the nearest set of corrals. And if you are waiting until he is too sick to run from you, you have waited too long and not doing a good job of keeping them healthy. That is also why it is important to be a good roper and be efficient. When you have to rope something that is just starting to show the signs of sickness but can still run, you want to be able to rope it fast. If you spend half the day chasing it trying to get it roped, or try taking it to the corrals miles away you are going to stress it way worse than taking 10 minutes to rope, doctor and let it go. So maybe you can see my fascination with roping skill, it’s a very important part of our job. And I will admit that I have had to doctor calves by myself and tripped them down with my rope because they were to big for me to wrestle down. But in a branding enviroment things are a lot slower like you described.
I think possibly it may be a matter of perspective. I grew up around all these forms of rodeo and ranch work so it is not as big of a deal to me. I don’t expect you to like it, and I am not endorsing abuse. Cowboys are the caretakers of livestock and they only give you what you put in them. However I do want people to see the other side of the coin.
I think we get this idea that everything that happens outside of our country is not regulated in any way. I'm pretty sure that there is a governing body of the association that holds these mexican rodeos and if every horse that was roped ended up with a broken leg they wouldn't do it. Regardless of nationality, nobody that spends thier life taking care of livestock wants to see animals get hurt. The cattle that were tailed down all jumped right back up and were fairly large cattle to begin with. The horses were tripped and I'm sure it's not the easiest thing on the horses but it wouldn't last long as a practice if many horses were injured that way. The reason they used such long ropes was so that the horses could be slowed before the roped came to a complete stop. I've roped a horse like that and it WILL get a horses attention.
I particularly like the horse heeling. I watched it several times and I still can't see how they got it done so smoothly.
I don't mean to hijack the thread and make a scene, but I still say, come on now. There's quite a difference between regular ranch work--which does involve roping and dragging to the branding fire, sure--and the crazy-fast, rope-'em-and-jerk-'em pace of rodeos:
It's as though it's engineered to be as stressful, traumatic, and painful as possible for the calf. And that's clearly not good herd management or animal husbandry. Granted, it's rare to see one with a broken neck or watch one get drug around the arena full speed for several laps (though I have seen that on two occasions from my somewhat limited rodeo experience--generally a bad handler on a poorly trained horse), but I've seen quite a few get up limping and you can't tell me that it's not really rough (er, cruel) on them. Choking them, flipping them, and slamming them that hard....that's just not good for the animal.
For the steer tailing, sure, they got back up, but you can still run with a broken tail. And again, the animal is still plenty useful to butcher, but that doesn't mean it wasn't abused in the mean time--fear and pain, for no purpose other than sport. Is that really OK?
As for horse tripping, I don't know how it's done in Mexico, but I've read a little on how it is/was done in the US....they'd rent a bunch of horses from a kill buyer who were slaughter-bound anyway. Disposable, pretty worthless horses. Which made the prospect of breaking something on one of them far less worrisome. Not to mention the fear, trauma, and pain involved. Obviously a horse doesn't much enjoy beng crashed into the ground....
And Kevin, for this:
"Regardless of nationality, nobody that spends thier life taking care of livestock wants to see animals get hurt."
Bullfighting, anyone? Always fatal for the bull and not infrequently fatal for the horses. But sure is entertaining!
They aren't concerned about being humane, they aren't concerned about animal welfare, they're just concerned about useability and profit.
Bubba, I don’t mind the hijacking of the thread. I like a little debating. And I don’t take it serious. I won’t think ill thoughts of you just because we don’t agree completely.
I think I misunderstood you somewhere. I thought your point was that calf roping or team roping was unrelated to ranch work. It was originated from ranch work, but your right it isn’t much like ranch work now. But really? Posting pictures and videos from SHARK? I am sorry you witnessed some bad rodeos. I have been to rodeos, charreadas, and ranch rodeos and seen very few animals injured. For american rodeos the amount of animals hurt is only about .00052% depending on the study. The contestants are hurt considerably more often. If you want to get on the band wagon for injured animals get on to horse racing . Almost 30% of race horses suffer an injury during their career.
I will say I have tried to find some statistics on Mexican rodeo and can not find any as far as how many animals are injured, so I can not speak for that. You had said- “I don’t know how it is done in Mexico…” The videos I posted were from Mexico, so you see how it is done at their “National Finals” in Mexico. Also you said they do it for profit, that is incorrect, the teams that compete in charreadas are family/ranch teams and do it for family/ranch pride. But I am sure that doesn’t make it easier to swallow.
I do not know where you got your information about slaughter horses being used for the charreadas in the U.S., especially until recently slaughter of horses has been illegal- I hope not from the SHARK website as well…since the video that Natisha posted from them was somewhat inaccurate. And I will explain why,
If you lay a horse down, take his feet away from him and when he gets up, he licks his lips for a long time thinking about it. It is not because he has a mouth injury as stated in the video. That is why the “Running W” was a great training tool before people really understood why. It got a horse to think a little. And I have had plenty of horses fall on me(that is why half of my front teeth are fake and my face is scarred, lol) on slick pasture, ice, mud or whatever and the first thing they do is get up and lick their lips. After I make sure they are ok, I get back on and we go back to work.
I would also like to mention that I know a lot of calf ropers who put sliding plates on their horses because they stop too hard. If the horse stops hard enough to actually yank the calf over backward or down, then it's not a good thing and you'll finish out of the money every time because you have to spend an added 1-2 seconds getting the calf back to his feet before you can flank him and tie him.