Them Mexican boys sure are ropey.... - Page 4
   

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Them Mexican boys sure are ropey....

This is a discussion on Them Mexican boys sure are ropey.... within the Roping forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Running w horse training tool
  • Running w horse tripping

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    12-05-2011, 01:46 AM
  #31
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
But really? Posting pictures and videos from SHARK?
You have to get the pictures from SHARK (I posted no videos, because I can't stand the commentary) because other places won't show the images. Doesn't mean the stuff isn't happening, obviously, just that it's not good press. Photos of yanking baby cows around is not the best way to garner support from the general public.

Quote:
I am sorry you witnessed some bad rodeos.
I don't think they were really bad rodeos. Mainly ACRA and IPRA, including both of their finals.

Quote:
I have been to rodeos, charreadas, and ranch rodeos and seen very few animals injured. For american rodeos the amount of animals hurt is only about .00052% depending on the study.
Define "injured." Mangled, no. Broken and visibly bleeding, rarely. Though I have seen one bulldogging steer with a broken neck. Doesn't mean they aren't bruised, traumatized, scared out of their wits, and in quite a bit of pain, however.

Quote:
The contestants are hurt considerably more often. If you want to get on the band wagon for injured animals get on to horse racing . Almost 30% of race horses suffer an injury during their career.
Also an industry with considerable problems. But at least they don't set out with practically an express intent to harm!

Quote:
Also you said they do it for profit, that is incorrect, the teams that compete in charreadas are family/ranch teams and do it for family/ranch pride. But I am sure that doesn’t make it easier to swallow.
Sorry, that's not what I meant by "profit." I was replying to Kevin's statement that these livestock handling guys would never hurt an animal. But the video clearly shows that they would gladly do so. It comes from two different definitions of "hurt." No, they aren't generally going to want to hurt something in a way to destroy its useability, either as a meat animal or a riding horse. But as for harming it in a way to cause pain/distress/injury that does not impact its monetary value, it's all fair game, apparently.

Quote:
I do not know where you got your information about slaughter horses being used for the charreadas in the U.S., especially until recently slaughter of horses has been illegal- I hope not from the SHARK website as well…since the video that Natisha posted from them was somewhat inaccurate.
Hmmmmm....I think it was from a newpaper article about charreadas, years ago, but I can't swear for certain. Also, I didn't watch the video Natisha posted, so don't know what you're talking about with the alleged injured mouth.

Quote:
That is why the “Running W” was a great training tool before people really understood why. It got a horse to think a little.
Now I've never used a running W, but I have a general concept of how it works, and it's sure not something I would call a training tool. A last-ditch vice-breaker for a truly rank horse, perhaps...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
I would also like to mention that I know a lot of calf ropers who put sliding plates on their horses because they stop too hard. If the horse stops hard enough to actually yank the calf over backward or down, then it's not a good thing and you'll finish out of the money every time because you have to spend an added 1-2 seconds getting the calf back to his feet before you can flank him and tie him.
From a PCA rodeo:


Notice that they don't show the jerk, so as not to offend the "animal rights" people, yet when they pan over, the calf is on the ground every time....

An older video:


Some NFR action:


I've been to somewhere on the order of two dozen pro rodeos, and at every single one, the vast majority of the calves have been flipped or otherwise thrown.
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    12-05-2011, 01:56 AM
  #32
Yearling
I used to ride around Norco, CA as well, and I used to board next to the Pico Rivera Sports Arena where they held Mexican style rodeos almost every weekend. I rode with people of Mexican decent, and even used to watch illegal quarter horse races in the riverbed. (Its amazing to watch 60 something people arrive within 15 minutes, watch a 20 second race, then everyone is gone just as quickly.) Lol

A lot of the people I rode with could not stand the rodeos that were held there. They would explain that it was mostly drunk people, riding horses harshly. They were not aloud to trip horses (roping the front legs) but my friends couldn't stand to see how the horses were handled.

On the other hand I saw some AMAZING Mexican riders while I was out there. I swear that everyone owns a stud, and 90% you wouldn't be able to guess by how they acted, standing tied next to mares and studs alike. At times I would think would be a great looking, calm gelding only to look underneath and see otherwise! I have yet to seen any non-mexican owned stud that behaved remotely well. (Though 80% of the studs I have seen were all owned by mexicans...) They also have some of the most beautiful QH studs I have seen, with great conformation and personalities. A lot of them treat their horses like gods.

I have to say that there is some great roping talent in that video, but I disprove of some of their events in those rodeos.
     
    12-05-2011, 05:34 PM
  #33
Green Broke
Going back to the pictures posted that came off of the SHARK website… have you ever seen the show “Wipeout” on TV? People go through a crazy obstacle course for a chance to win $50,000. Often they have slow-motion replays of their wipeouts and the persons body looks painfully contorted, yet they are uninjured. The pictures posted are the same idea. You would be surprised what a body can handle. I am not saying that calves don’t get jerked. But if a calf is flipped over roughly ( which is usually due to roper error, not pitching his slack at the right time) the contestant will be disqualified. If you are making a living rodeoing, and get disqualified and/or fined, you don’t get a check. The videos you posted of calf roping, I couldn’t watch, for some reason my computer is being slow. But you said they don’t show the jerk. Who cares if you can’t see it in the video….thousands of people attend rodeos- they see it. An animal activist could go to a rodeo and see it if they wanted too. And the contestants do not go out there with the intent to harm the animals. He will be disqualified and/or fined and he will hear about it from the stock contractor. If a stock contractors animals are injured, they can’t perform. If his animals can’t perform, he doesn’t get paid.

In the study performed about the rate of injuries to rodeo stock, the term “injured” referred to a visible injury or vet treatment. I found another study released by the Jockey Club 2 years ago stated that racehorses in the U.S. Die at the rate of 2.04 per a thousand starts. That averages out to 2 racehorses die a day! I would say that is quite a bit more than rodeo animals when you do the math and I am comparing deaths to injuries! This study was done in order to find safer practices in horse racing. Same as the PRCA and rodeo. It shows effort in both parties to make safer.


Moving on….the “Running W”. I have used a “Running W” many times. Just like anything you use on a horse, it is only as cruel as you make it. A horses safety feature is his legs. He runs if he is scared. If you lay a horse down, essentially take his legs from him, he starts to think instead of reacting. I have started colts this way. The horses were untouched until 2 years of age, we gathered them into an arena, ran through a bucking chute, haltered with a long lead rope and turned back out for a couple of weeks. They taught themselves to give to the pressure of a halter. The colts were brought back in put, in a round pen, hobbled, saddled, fitted with a Running W and laid down on each side to be sacked out. Then I got on and rode them. I could accomplish more in 1 hour than it takes most people to do in 2 weeks or more. And have the same end result. A horse that was willing to be caught, saddled without being tied, mounted from both sides, walk, trot, lope and be gathering cattle outside by ride 10. So yes I would definitely consider the Running W a training tool when used correctly.
     
    12-05-2011, 05:41 PM
  #34
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsesdontlie    
I used to ride around Norco, CA as well, and I used to board next to the Pico Rivera Sports Arena where they held Mexican style rodeos almost every weekend. I rode with people of Mexican decent, and even used to watch illegal quarter horse races in the riverbed. (Its amazing to watch 60 something people arrive within 15 minutes, watch a 20 second race, then everyone is gone just as quickly.) Lol

A lot of the people I rode with could not stand the rodeos that were held there. They would explain that it was mostly drunk people, riding horses harshly. They were not aloud to trip horses (roping the front legs) but my friends couldn't stand to see how the horses were handled.

On the other hand I saw some AMAZING Mexican riders while I was out there. I swear that everyone owns a stud, and 90% you wouldn't be able to guess by how they acted, standing tied next to mares and studs alike. At times I would think would be a great looking, calm gelding only to look underneath and see otherwise! I have yet to seen any non-mexican owned stud that behaved remotely well. (Though 80% of the studs I have seen were all owned by mexicans...) They also have some of the most beautiful QH studs I have seen, with great conformation and personalities. A lot of them treat their horses like gods.

I have to say that there is some great roping talent in that video, but I disprove of some of their events in those rodeos.
That was the reason I was down there. I was buying a Mr. Gunsmoke bred stud. He was bred and raised by mexicans and you could not tell he was a stallion! I rode him down the roads in Norco and ride next to mares, he was a very polite horse. I regretted selling him off, he was spectacular horse. However he went to a great home where they bred rope horses. They do take great pride in their horses, like I said before, the charros house I went to- His horses had better living conditions than himself!
     
    12-05-2011, 05:52 PM
  #35
Green Broke
I think horse tripping is cruel. I got to about 2:02 of the first video and didn't feel like watching anymore. How is it excusable to treat horses like garbage one minute and excuse it by saying the horses they are riding are treated well? What makes one horse more deserving than another? Fate? Luck? That someone cared enough to train one horse and not the other?

I felt sorry for the cattle too.
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    12-05-2011, 06:16 PM
  #36
Foal
My horse trainer is a charro. His horse training is NH and pressure release techniques. He is a very good trainer. He invited to a mexican rodeo in the US. They did not trip horses and he said his group does not trip horses in the rodeos he performs in. He said they do not compete in prize money but rather for the honor of the sport. I am not mexican but I did try to be in the Escarmuza(skirmish) It is an unique tradition. The girls dress in fancy clothes riding sidesaddle with fast paced drill team maneuvers. I am past my prime and I couldn't do what they do riding side saddle, but had fun trying.

Roping skills- all I can say is wow. Their young sons ride and rope with the same skill as the grown men.

I have traveled all over the world and try to learn some of the different cultures we share our world with.

Oops Reining-- notice the white lines in the arena. Their horses have to do reining maneuvers without the horses stepping on the lines inorder to score higher points.
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    12-05-2011, 09:16 PM
  #37
Banned
Charreadas are all about pride and honor . Another thing . Charros were the first trail riders way before the american cowboy was ever thought of . Most people get into rodeo for the money but charros are born and its in their blood almost like a birthright.
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    12-05-2011, 09:20 PM
  #38
Banned
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    12-05-2011, 09:47 PM
  #39
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
Going back to the pictures posted that came off of the SHARK website… have you ever seen the show “Wipeout” on TV? People go through a crazy obstacle course for a chance to win $50,000. Often they have slow-motion replays of their wipeouts and the persons body looks painfully contorted, yet they are uninjured. The pictures posted are the same idea.
Again, the calves survive and generally trot off (looking rather dazed). Doesn't mean they're having fun. Doesn't mean they don't hurt and they aren't pretty sore the next day. I imagine those "Wipeout" contestents are pretty crippled up the next day, too (hell, I'm sore today because I wasn't able to ride for a week, then I rode yesterday and apparently couldn't handle it). Difference is, they're voluntarily choosing to participate. Adrenaline can temporarily mask a lot of soreness, too. I know when I take my super-lame horse to the vet, he gets nervous and suddenly starts trotting a whole lot better....

Quote:
You would be surprised what a body can handle. I am not saying that calves don’t get jerked. But if a calf is flipped over roughly ( which is usually due to roper error, not pitching his slack at the right time) the contestant will be disqualified.
In what association? I've seen rough jerks/flips in money-winning times at professional rodeos on numerous occasions. And like I said before, I've rarely seen a calf not get thrown....even at the NFR.

Quote:
But you said they don’t show the jerk. Who cares if you can’t see it in the video….thousands of people attend rodeos- they see it. An animal activist could go to a rodeo and see it if they wanted too.
And they do, and they create the SHARK films. Which are then dismissed as biased propaganda. But why doesn't ESPN want viewers at home seeing the slack come out of the rope?

Quote:
And the contestants do not go out there with the intent to harm the animals. He will be disqualified and/or fined and he will hear about it from the stock contractor. If a stock contractors animals are injured, they can’t perform. If his animals can’t perform, he doesn’t get paid.
Again, "injured" versus "harmed." You can do a whole hell of a lot of damage to a person or animal without actually injuring them.
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    12-06-2011, 10:41 AM
  #40
Green Broke
I wonder how many advocates for horse tripping would volunteer up their horses for the event?
     

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