Dutch Warmbloods - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 64 Old 02-23-2011, 02:36 AM
Join Date: Feb 2010
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<3 KWPN <3 !! i'm a big fan of them , although i own a TB , i like TBs but it's weird how when i ride a dutch wormblood i get more confidence and i won't be worried about falling or anything especially the sport ones haha :P

ok my dream is to buy a kwpn , and i found this cool site , they sell sport horses and OMG they are like every riders dream =D .... their location is in Belgium , but you can contact them about the prices and everything online and you can see videos for the horses ... and then if you were really interested they would book your flight , hotel and pick you up from the airport ... well i didn't bought one from them yet ,i'm trying to save money for it , because their horses are some what expensive .
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post #22 of 64 Old 02-23-2011, 06:06 PM
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Heah, there are great KWPN horses right here in NA, and no quarantine or airfare!!
What do you desire? There are some other terrific warmbloods too. I have a nice coming 6 year old looking for his rider. Contact me. We use KWPN lines and have KWPN in our CWHBA herd.
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post #23 of 64 Old 02-23-2011, 06:48 PM
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There is no need to go over to Europe. There are zillians of Dutch Warmbloods over here.

The problem is those websites are really glitzy and cool with pretty horse pictures, and they get people all excited and gaga.

The people that run those big sale barns are professionals and you really do not want to try to deal with them yourself. You need an agent that works for you, who has dealt with those places for years.

The horses generally go for upwards of 50,000 dollars, and it costs at least a couple thousand to pay the agent and 9,000+ dollars to bring the horse to the US, more if it's a mare(mares go to quarantine for 3 weeks at a US quarantine station).

This is kind of the big leagues and you don't want to go to them on your own. Really, seriously, trust me on that one.

But I think it is a big, big mistake to say, 'I have to have a Dutch Warmblood'. The horse that turns out to be suitable for you could be of almost any breed. It's not good to get too narrowed down.

See if you can find the book, 'The Superlative Horse'.

Interesting story.

Last edited by slc; 02-23-2011 at 06:51 PM.
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post #24 of 64 Old 02-23-2011, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by slc View Post
But I think it is a big, big mistake to say, 'I have to have a Dutch Warmblood'. The horse that turns out to be suitable for you could be of almost any breed. It's not good to get too narrowed down.
Agree'd. My vet told me (yes my vet, who rides to) that because I showjump and hack/trail ride etc that I should sell my thoroughbred and buy a warmblood or a clyde x because thoroughbreds are to hot and impatient to handle it.... Stick this up your bum mr vet, I just bought another tb and he's so quiet you just about have to take a second look and google his brand and racing history to believe he was a successful racer .
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R.I.P ~ Bubbles - 25yo tb mare - 13.04.2011 ~ 8:30am ~ passed away naturally and peacefully in my arms
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post #25 of 64 Old 02-24-2011, 12:57 AM
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I agree, SLC. however... i can buy an import for say, 18K. Then when he lands here, i can put him in training for a couple months and then turn around and sell him for 40. We do it all day long at our barn.
People (especially here) want to be able to say their horse was imported. That he wasn't bought from some barn in Nebraska... even if the barn in Nebraska had legit bloodlines and put the buttons on for you!
We have all Dutch imports in the barn at the moment all of which were put on US soil for less than 20k... and all of which are for sale in the very high five figures. It's a pretty wild business.

Life seems mighty precious, when there's less of it to waste.
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post #26 of 64 Old 02-24-2011, 07:18 AM
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There is a gigantic markup on imported horses that are trained and sold here, not because they're necessarily worth the eventual price, but because baby needs a new pair of shoes (profit issue).

The trouble is, that the added price doesn't always indicate added value.

Young, average, and I mean really average, quality warmbloods, often in the 'second grade' registry rather than say, KWPN, go for only a couple thousand euros over there, sometimes less. Then tack on 10k for flying the horse over here, then tack on some profit, and the very modestly endowed WB is being sold in the USA for 40 or 50k. If the horse originally sold in the EU for 2000 euros or less, he can sell for 20 times that here.

If it's any consolation, the same thing is happening to US reining horses imported to Europe now. But it's still a problem for US buyers of sport horses, despite that.

I wouldn't ever suggest that you can always buy in the US and get what you want. There are problems with buying a better quality WB for upper level dressage here - the main one, that the United States is a huge place and every single horse is nearly always in a different place.

Here, to look at ONE horse, you pay for air fare, hotel and a car rental - generally at least a thousand dollars per trip. And nearly EVERY trip, you look at ONE horse. If you're focused on what you want, a certain age and level of training, and a level of quality, in the US, you can spend all your horse budget just looking at horses.

If you go to Europe, you can look at 30 horses on one trip. In two days. And they all might be more the size and level of training you want.

In BOTH places, you need someone who has your back and can negotiate, as well as spot all the tricks that are played.

In BOTH places, horses are lame, misrepresented, badly trained.

In BOTH places, both internet advertising and being 'out of town' (and so unknown to you) gives a monstrously huge edge to the SELLER. For example, one website featured what looked like a gorgeous horse farm with statues at the entrance and row upon row of stalls filled with beautiful upper level horses for sale.

Well. When I went there, I found out the person lived in a house, and boarded two horses at a boarding barn. She'd buy a nice horse for herself, and a so-so horse to sell, to help pay for her personal purchase. There was no big farm with a zillian horses. THAT farm on the website, was one she dropped by in Europe and snapped a lot of pics.

Just remember, being out of town, advertising on the internet gives the seller a huge, huge advantage.

In another case, a horse was advertised as 'quiet, gentle, easy for anyone to ride'. I almost bought the horse. At the last minute a judge told me that he often judged in the state where the horse was, and that it was a dangerous and chronic rearer, and had been for years. When you aren't from the area, you don't know the story.

And the story is ALWAYS going to be beautiful gaits, 10 mover, easy to ride and get on the bit, trained to - oh, whatever level you want.

BEEEEE CAREFUL. Take someone along with a very, very bad temper and a whole lot of knowledge, hopefully someone who everyone knows and will raise holy he** and tell the whole world if the seller pulls something on you. If you have to pay him/her, do it.

In BOTH places, horses are sedated, worked down, deprived of feed and sold with clear intention to sell a bad horse, a harmful horse, a downright dangerous horse.

I had the most horrific trick played on me once. The agent wasn't familiar with the horse; it wasn't his fault. This was in N. AMerica, mind, not Europe, but it can happen anywhere. It just so happened that the seller was delayed so that I wound up standing by the horse's stall, watching him. And I could see there was something very, very wrong with this animal, something very neurological. There was a 'scrubby' area on the inside of each leg, covering a small bump. When he walked around in his stall, he didn't walk normally, he LURCHED and hit those two spots with his feet. Then he fell on his face - WHAM. And this was the worst part, picked himself up without the least nervousness. In other words, this was happening all the time.

Now, when the owner arrived they first took the horse out into the arena and longed him. He fell AGAIN. The agent walked up and I whispered, 'let's go'. He got one good look at the horse and we scooted out of there.

This was a gorgeous facility, a young horse of top bloodlines, gorgeous, beautifully groomed....this is exactly the kind of thing that happens.

You have to be very careful where ever you go. Sure, a vet would have found out THAT horse, but I've been listening to tales of woe for years and years, mostly, that the person is overmounted. Sometimes this is mutual deception, of course, the person gets flattered by the seller and they swallow it, 'sure you can handle this horse, you're a super fantastic rider'.
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post #27 of 64 Old 03-11-2011, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Edmonton, AB
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There are lots of us breeding 'European Quality' KWPN horses here in North America. Most of my broodmares are imported (as many breeders have), crossing with stallions still in Holland and competing at top levels with proven offspring. You'll pay a fraction of a price for a NA born baby, with the talent to go far, and has imported parents. Bonus of buying direct from a breeder, and 'locally' is most breeders will provide post-purchase support. Even advertising on their website if you should ever decide to sell the horse.

Something most horses bought from overseas or agents don't have.
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*Riding is not a sport, it is a passion. If you do not share the passion, you do not know the sport, and therefore are wasting your time*
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post #28 of 64 Old 05-25-2011, 12:52 AM
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I've ridden 3 KWPN horses and I've found them all to be extremely fun to ride, but very challenging! To me, they tend to be quite strong and stubborn, but are faantastic athletes once you figure out how to ride them.
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post #29 of 64 Old 05-29-2011, 08:46 PM
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Interesting thread. Like any other breed, one should shop for the bloodlines that are for you and your discipline. There are hot, and not hot in the KWPN. I love my old Zalmeco mare. She was Int.1 mare, and is oldstyle in build, but a dream to ride, soft underneath me, with a ton of strength for the movements. Our KWPN stallion is awesome, but he was a big handful as a young fellow, lots of testerone...chuckle. He is forward moving, and a great ride since he grew up. Our deceased KWPN stallion was tremendous in his strength of movement, but again, you could absorb his movement, and his work ethic was phenomenal. I love the work ethic I have found on these horses and some of the trakehner lines. That's important to me as a rider/breeder. Unfortunately it isn't a real visible thing.
In this day and age of internet....one thing buyers can do, is check for references on the seller/breeder they want to deal with. I know that our farm isn't fancy, but I can take my horse(s) to an indoor for rainday tryouts, etc. I would gladly offer references to a prospective buyer, for many of the reasons stated earlier in this thread. I want my clients happy for many many years, and so far, so good. I don;t believe I do myself or my buyer any favours by mis-representing,etc. I have had the deals go bad, where horse on consignment ends up gelded and crippled for life...so I am very particular now, where my horses go for training, and I guess I collect for awhile, rather than consign again. A really really nice horse is now a pasture ornament, and it cost me many thousands of dollars for the pleasure, after the consignment that is. He had been pro trained for 3 years before that. Sure ate up any profits from breeding/training and selling for a good number of years.
Breeders will often offer a better deal to a serious rider, looking to rank their youngster up through the years. A friend and I both offer incentives for those who achieve with our horses. Better for me than just knocking a dollar off today. And I think it is gratifying for the buyer in the future as well. Another reward for a job well done.
KWPN are no more difficult than other breeds, but heah, I have and love trakehners too...also much more sensible than many may believe.
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post #30 of 64 Old 06-12-2011, 03:49 PM
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My boy is KWPN.
I can't be bothered to get the document with his lines on, but i know Queen of Peru, Bridal Colours and War Relic are all on there somewhere.
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