Honestly TOO much blood? - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 14 Old 06-25-2012, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Question Honestly TOO much blood?

Is there an honest pro or semi-pro rider out there who would actually admit to having a horse with a pedigree to die for but it is just too difficult to ride or has such bad charachter its impossible to progress or its just off its head and is so stressed by everything that it does not concentrate.

I have been working proffessionally with serious sport horses for a long time now and I am looking at the breeding of future sport horses and in seeing the choices of breeders, I see potentially big profits from foal sales but potential disaster for the horses when it comes to being ridden!!!!

Do any others share my views on the high blood horses for top sports?

I am seeing a lot of mares coming into our breeding facility purely because it is not possible to ride one side of them yet alone jump 14 fences!!!

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post #2 of 14 Old 06-25-2012, 09:49 PM
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post #3 of 14 Old 07-05-2012, 05:02 PM
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You have De Sjiem,who won an olympic medal in Athens I think under Jeroen Dubbeldam.
VERY talented showjumper but a HUGE pain in the ass.
Dubbeldam is a very gifted rider but Sjiem threw him of countless times,nobody could ride him and you could never lose your focus riding him.
Dubbeldam cried and cried when he won the gold medal because countless times he would have stopped riding him but he never gave up.

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post #4 of 14 Old 07-05-2012, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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Too true

But what of the horses that do not make it to a gifted rider?

I have seen a lot of horses that are not suitable for the amateur circuit even serious amateurs!! Although they have all the top stallions in their lines and are of high regard to the name sayers that only want horses of high popularity, or by breeders and sellers of foals who want pedigrees to make best returns at auctions.

But I am more concerned that the trend for high blood sport horses and foals with a high pedigree are producing horses with a very limited future, I mean, its not everyday that Micheal Wittaker or Jack Doyle are buying their next olympic ride!!!!

Should breeders be looking to breed quality, healthy and uncomplicated horses not just high blood pedigrees with papers to die for?

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post #5 of 14 Old 07-05-2012, 07:19 PM
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I agree with the OP. Too many breeders are focusing on the legs of the horse and too few on the brain.

It's difficult in NA to find anything that is bred for Dressage, but also isn't holy smokin hot and crazy. My horse is NA bred with good bloodlines, but trying to find my next horse is a bit of an issue. I don't want anything with certain lines (Krack C, Jazz, etc...) but to find anything with decent inspection results and in a studbook without the "popular" lines of today is very hard!
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post #6 of 14 Old 07-06-2012, 05:38 AM
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Jazz lines are indeed very sensitive but god,they are fantastic horses.
And some of them aren't that bad,the damline is also important.

It's indeed very hard to find Jazz/Ferro/Krack free dressage lines,but they are there but you'll have to look good. Here in Europe it's not that difficult to find horses without their blood.

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post #7 of 14 Old 08-05-2012, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Laures View Post
Jazz lines are indeed very sensitive but god,they are fantastic horses.
And some of them aren't that bad,the damline is also important.

It's indeed very hard to find Jazz/Ferro/Krack free dressage lines,but they are there but you'll have to look good. Here in Europe it's not that difficult to find horses without their blood.
I agree with the types you describe, but what can influence breeders to think a little more about the end result of their breedings?

Laures, being from Belgium you will be very familiar with Zangersheid? I approve and disapprove all at the same time of the Z studbook. Z and the Z festival has become about nothing more than breeding high pedigree foals, the fact that you can register any type of horse breed as Z means you are as a breeder free to choose any stallion in the world and still achieve a Z registration. I saw hundreds of foals at the Z fest this year with pedigrees to the hilt but when I actually looked deeper into the lines all I can see is a high blood horse with character enough for the rest of the barn that may never get the rider it needs to become a true sport horse, it seems as though the breeders are focusing on the blood lines and too little attention is being paid to the end product, which if I am not mistaken was intended to be a sport horse?

Correct me if I'm wrong?

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post #8 of 14 Old 08-14-2012, 07:49 PM
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I work for a farm whose ultimate goal is rideability, with the best pedigree possible. Our stallion, Vinca (Metall/Ferro x Idocus) throws sane babies - his first foal is out of a Jazz/Zeoliet mare who is being ridden by a 12 year old in the Children's division this coming show season. She is so quiet the boy needs to wear a pair of spurs! Another daughter from this same cross is going to Illinois for the National Young Horse Championships in two weeks for the 4 YO division, and can be ridden by amateur's easily.

IMO, it's all about playing with crosses, and seeing what the stallion does on each side of the pedigree. We had a hot Jazz x Idocus, yet our Idocus x Jazz is super sane and down to earth.

It's easier to sell these rideable horses, especially into the Hunter ring. In America, we don't have access to the level of training that Europe has, which I think is making this breeding business a tad more amateur-friendly.
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post #9 of 14 Old 08-14-2012, 08:00 PM
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Posting mostly to subscribe and follow this thread. The riding school I teach at recently relocated to a barn featuring some very successful Grand Prix riders and each time I see the horses out and being worked I wonder if all horses jumping at this level are this flighty. Surely the horses don't have to be that crazy in order to get over a nearly 5 foot fence?
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post #10 of 14 Old 08-15-2012, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wranglerman View Post
I agree with the types you describe, but what can influence breeders to think a little more about the end result of their breedings?

Laures, being from Belgium you will be very familiar with Zangersheid? I approve and disapprove all at the same time of the Z studbook. Z and the Z festival has become about nothing more than breeding high pedigree foals, the fact that you can register any type of horse breed as Z means you are as a breeder free to choose any stallion in the world and still achieve a Z registration. I saw hundreds of foals at the Z fest this year with pedigrees to the hilt but when I actually looked deeper into the lines all I can see is a high blood horse with character enough for the rest of the barn that may never get the rider it needs to become a true sport horse, it seems as though the breeders are focusing on the blood lines and too little attention is being paid to the end product, which if I am not mistaken was intended to be a sport horse?

Correct me if I'm wrong?
Yeah, you're quite right. Zangersheide isn't that welcome in other registries although they time to time approve a Z stallions. It sounds a bit weird, the fact that they accept any other horse breed but ultimatly, they're just doing it like any other registry: breeding to perform.
And Z is quite succesful when you look at stallions like Levisto Z, Air Jordan Z, Taloubet Z, Asca Z, Zandor Z etc. Even their mare base is pretty strong if you think of mare like Cadjaninne Z (OS with Gregory Wathelet), Ratina Z, Calipa Z,Cierania Z etc.

Bracca meas vescimini.
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