HYPP Complacency and Misinformation muddying the waters...or what? - Page 3
   

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HYPP Complacency and Misinformation muddying the waters...or what?

This is a discussion on HYPP Complacency and Misinformation muddying the waters...or what? within the Stallions and Broodmares forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Vital Signs Are Good Hypp
  • Vital signs are good hypp status

View Poll Results: Does HYPP matter to you when selecting stallions for your mares to breed?
HYPP does not matter to me when selecting a stallion to breed to. 0 0%
I would only breed an HYPP N/N mare to an N/N stallion. 14 22.22%
For Halter purposes I believe HYPP gives them a better chance at winning. 0 0%
HYPP does matter to me & its HYPP results should be stamped on its papers. 7 11.11%
HYPP is much about nothing to me. 0 0%
HYPP is a serious problem which we can only treat the symptoms of. 2 3.17%
Its about time people get with the program and selectively breed for horses negative for genetic abnormalities. 36 57.14%
Stallion ads should list the HYPP status. 4 6.35%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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    02-11-2014, 10:59 PM
  #21
Yearling
I agree that responsible breeder know this & do the testing. But we have all seen the results of careless breeding all too often. One litter of puppies that I breed, as an example, I had kept a male as a hunt trial prospect. He ended up having a genetic disorder called EIC, exercise induced collaspe. I had never heard of this condition before this dog. I placed him in a home as a pet, told them that he could not be used as a stud because of the condition, has his reg. Papers limited. Even had them sign a nuter contract. Found out several years later, they had breed him to several other females. In hind sight, I should have nutered him before placing him to ensure that he didn't reproduce. I have no idea of knowing how many puppies he produced that carried on that defect
     
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    02-11-2014, 11:29 PM
  #22
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by littrella    
My personal opnion on OWLS is a positive animal should not be breed. Neat color patterns should not over rule a genetic defect. How many times have people been told not to buy for color or that color should be the last factor in deciding to buy a horse.
There are no living "OLWS positive" horses (they die if they are homozygous positive). There are only living OLWS carriers, aka frame overos. Semantics, I know. But when you breed APHA horses for a small income the majority of your choices for world champion stallions happen to be frame overos. :) Which is why we responsibly choose to breed them to non-frame mares, but the foals do have a 50/50 chance of carrying frame.

I can only control what I can control. If I lived my life worrying about what stupid humans would do, I would never do anything, aha.
     
    02-12-2014, 12:33 AM
  #23
Yearling
I have an Impressive bred (n/n) mare that is also OLWS (frame overo). I LOVE the impressive lines - they are versatile, beautiful headed, and athletic as a rule. Daisy is a great example of the Impressive cross with a Superior WP Stud - she has won several grands in halter competition, got her Register of Merit in 4 shows in NA trail, and can do a big lofty trot for HUS but can also be slow and deep for western. She has points in Halter, WP, HUS, Trail, the eq classes and even a few barrel racing points.

I am extremely excited to see what she produces.

I am breeding her to a n/n son of Vital Signs Are Good - VS Code Blue. Vital Signs are Good is considered by many to be the greatest show mare that has ever lived, winning 11 World Championships and over 30 Congress Championships, as well as having $267,000. Lifetime earnings recorded. Her offspring have won over $500,000. In lifetime earnings and too many titles to list.

Vital Signs Are Good is N/H. And I have to admit, she muddies the right and wrong of breeding these horses for me personally. She has produced (thanks to embryo transfer) many n/n horses that are passing on her incredible talent - redefining pleasure horses in the AQHA and APHA world.

So because someone saw her talent and bred her despite her n/h status, we have studs like VS Flatline, VS Code Red, and VS Code Blue - all n/n Quarter horse studs that have extensive show records and produce fantastic riders. She has also produced n/h studs that have died - so the risk is still there.

I have owned a n/h horse in the past, and would not choose to own one again, but there are those that do, and are succesful.

Me personally, the frame overo pattern is beautiful and is not in my eyes a defect - I know not to breed her to another OLWS carrier so she will never produce a lethal white. It is a non issue in my book. I am just hopeful that in 2015 I'll have a little red roan frame overo filly out of some really amazing horses.
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    02-12-2014, 04:02 AM
  #24
Started
I love overos :). My OWLS comment is basicly Don't breed two together. Get them tested and if both are Frame Overos, then pick a different stud. The thing about OWLS is most of the times you can SEE if a horse if frame overo (I know it can hide but most irresponsible cases are "ooh they are both a purdy kolor! They should have a baby!"). I think if all mares and studs should have genetic testing. It should also be required and paid for by the registry. That way, genetic defects, resulting in foal death (OWLS, HERDA, JEB) and long term effects is solely on the breeder.

Personally I would not breed a, or to a N/H horse, BUT that being said, there are cases where they can produce good horses that are N/N. I would also never breed a/to a HERDA (or if I get belgian fever, JEB) horse. There are SO MANY good healthy horses to pick and breed to, why would I NEED to breed to one with a disorder?

I understand the show records but the QH and APHA are the largest registries in the world, and more are bred than most other breeds. That being said if my pickings where slim in america I could also import semen.

Again I don't breed so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
     
    02-12-2014, 11:49 AM
  #25
Green Broke
^They can. But it's a gamble I don't think people should be willing to take.
     
    02-13-2014, 06:52 AM
  #26
Foal
Thank you for sharing your story. As a mother of 2, and with many troubled kids having stayed at our house with a horse to care for & show, when my daughter's game horse twisted & colicked at age 26, there was nobody to blame, yet she still took that loss so hard it was a very long before she went back into the barn-and she never did show again. Imagining how a kid would feel knowing their horse may pass anytime from a genetic disorder that is totally preventable by selective breeding-or minimally should be fully disclosed to potential buyers.
     
    02-13-2014, 07:41 AM
  #27
Foal
Smile The HYPP Issue-Thank you for your sharing your stories-well worth reading.

Each story shared has a message which to me seems to say enough is enough. While its true Impressive did not have the disease, it is also true that "back in the day" when a stallion would fill a book of 80 mares, & with many of sons of Impressive standing at stud throughout North America, this dominant genetic defect spread like wildfire.

In the fall of 1986 I had the opportunity to have an enlightening conversation with Impressive's private vet, (Dr. XXXX XXXXXXX, DVM) & as I discussed this strange, variable symptoms of this "syndrome" which seemed prevalent in our area-especially effecting the offspring of a son of Impressive who was breeding many mares each year in our area. Several were boarded in our barn-all symptomatic. Prior to my conversation with Dr. Johnson about Hyperkalemia and its dominant genetic link, we did not know what we were dealing with, much less how to treat it. Even now horror stories of people taking their HH or even N/H horses off their daily meds and then finding them dead the next day are not uncommon. The horror of watching a horse suffocate, even if it recovers, or seeing them appear to be tying up to the point of going down, was something I did not want our, or any, happy, confident group of young Barn Rats to have to see-or ever have deal with as a personal loss.

Your input is very helpful in trying to reach out to those on the Breeders Committee for some breeds known to have Impressive genes in the breed and therefore need to test for it, and make a firm decision about whether horses with the defective HYPP gene should be allowed to be used for breeding. The genetics these horses carry are already in the gene pool, and until selectively bred out, there is no need to further pollute the existing gene pool for the AQHA, PHBA, ApHC the APHA and other breeds known to carry HYPP. Just the opposite is called for.


“Success does not consist in never making mistakes but in never making the same one a second time.” -George Bernard Shaw
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    02-13-2014, 08:50 AM
  #28
Foal
We breed N/N mares, and actually we do also breed our N/N stallion to N/H mares, but we do not breed any H/H mares. One of our N/N broodmares has a dam who was N/H and sire who was N/N, she's the result of luck is my lovely HYPP N/N broodmare who of course when bred to our N/N stallion produced a neat snowcapped colt, also N/N, as all others of that same cross will be.
That's what we're after-although when the genetics chart is studied it adds an element of risk when breeding any horse that isn't N/N, since technically if an N/H mare were to have 8 foals and was bred to a N/N stallion each time, the chances are she would only have 2 N/N babies out of the 8 foals even with N/N sires for all 8.
     
    02-13-2014, 08:52 AM
  #29
Foal
That's how these genetic disorders can take off if not stopped by selective breeding!
     
    02-13-2014, 09:24 AM
  #30
Yearling
I am in favor of no N/H horses ever being bred - mare or stallion. You could effectively eliminate the disease in one generation! There is so much genetic diversity in QH that are N/N that the loss in that regards is small.

Sweetwater farm I find it somewhat interesting that you come on here with a 'Holier than Thou' attitude about your N/N stallion (which I think is great), but then to on to say that you will breed him to N/H mares. WHAT?? You are propagating the gene unless you are doing ET and testing the embryos for HYPP status. And you math is wrong... An N/N bred to N/H will statistically result in half N/N and half N/H offspring.

I would never own or breed an N/H horse. It would be a deal breaker for me, no matter how nice that horse was! Yes, when it is a top winner it is tragic. If you have the money to test embryos that is the only responsible way to breed an N/H horse IMO.
     

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appaloosa, horse breeding, hypp, hypp n/n stallions

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