Look for in stallion? - Page 12 - The Horse Forum

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post #111 of 196 Old 09-06-2013, 10:32 AM
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While there isn't much speed breeding there, he does has a lot of cow bred horses further back.
Unfortunately, unless he really performs well, he doesn't have a pedigree that hollers 'barrels & poles'. That is why he will need to prove himself and do it well, if you want to stand him at stud.

I'm going to answer some of what else has been said in this thread. I believe breeding animals should be proven. Whether that be in the show pen or through work or through their offspring. You can't say a stallion has proven himself if all he has done is produced a cute baby. That has proven that his testicles work. Once that foal is older and has been started under saddle and starting to be used, then I can admit to the stallion as a proven animal. Until then, what do you know about the foal? Even good looking horses that are a dream to handle on the ground can be complete bums to start under saddle, and as I have said before, what good is a hard to start horse?
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post #112 of 196 Old 09-06-2013, 12:10 PM
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^I don't think it's just about proving themselves. It's about conformation and personality, too. I wouldn't want to breed a horse that can jump the moon, throws pretty babies, but has a nasty attitude.
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post #113 of 196 Old 09-06-2013, 01:22 PM
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^I don't think it's just about proving themselves. It's about conformation and personality, too. I wouldn't want to breed a horse that can jump the moon, throws pretty babies, but has a nasty attitude.
I agree. I turned down some babies/horses in the past that had sires with National titles because they were nuttier than fruitcakes. Ribbons did nothing for the expectation of a sane horse. That is the very reason I chose Golden Ecstasy as a sire to my 2 colts. Both are tractable, sane, willing, not to mention having conformation, beauty, and movement. That's more valuable to me than a dubious title that has more to do with politics and money than actual quality.
It all depends on priorities. You can have it both ways, but one doesn't guarantee the other.

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post #114 of 196 Old 09-06-2013, 10:39 PM
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For those who have Arabians, here's an excellent article that sums up the status of the Arab Show world. I'm sad to say, in the short time I've been showing, I have found much truth in it. Quite the reality-check.
It is a lose-lose for most people.

| ARABIAN HORSE WORLD | Letters to the World |

Other breeds may have better environments/regulations for showing, but what I've seen is very disturbing. Make choices based on many things, not just who has what ribbon.
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Last edited by Druydess; 09-06-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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post #115 of 196 Old 09-07-2013, 01:33 AM
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Druydess once again words of wisdom from a very savvy breeder.
That article rings true not only for the Arabian horse but most breeds.
I do not care about a show record if it only means someone paid the right trainer enough money to teach a horse walk trot and canter round an arena in front of a panel of judges that might not be as impartial as they paid to be.
THE ONLY WAY to prove a stallion is by his get.
He can have dozens of national titles but if he does not pass that gift unto his progeny then he is a failure. Or if the owners of his get do not spend the money to train his offspring he is a failure.
Confromation and temperament are more important to the average horse owner than any show record will ever be. Most horses will never enter a showring. They require no ribbons to validate the quality of their horses.
My stallion Star has never been shown but has an impeccable pedigree and great conformation. He has stamped his offspring with good arabian type, straight legs, versatlity, and great temperament . Those are the only qualities IMO that earn a stallion the right to remain intact. Shalom
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post #116 of 196 Old 09-08-2013, 10:26 AM
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I am by no means a show snob. But one purpose that showing a stud serves is to prove he can do something besides run around and take pictures. You want to prove your horse has "tractability" and "disposition" and all those other catchphrases that people love to throw around? Put your money where your big mouth is. Train your stud to do something before breeding him. At least prove that he can be ridden outside the round pen. If he's so calm and gentle, let's see pictures of him under saddle being calm and obedient. This means a stud owner is going to have to wait until the horse is well under saddle before breeding.

There's not one piece of this equation that is more valuable than the other. A good disposition doesn't win over crappy conformation, nor does colour or a pretty head mean more than a good mind. A stallion should have the entire package before being allowed to stand to a number of outside mares. Obviously you will won't know what the stud will produce before doing a test breeding or two, but for heavens sake, TRAIN your stud for something. I'm sick of seeing people who claim to have a top quality stud, when all they've done with the horse is run it around and take pictures.

There is a local stud who I would breed to in a heartbeat should I be so inclined. Does he have a world class show record? Nope. But he has fantastic conformation and a child could ride him. He has a job besides making babies. He gets ridden regularly and the owner has the pics to prove it. That stud is way more impressive and worthy of being bred than many many stallions I see being pimped out online who have no credentials besides being a subject of endless useless pictures, while their owners fill endless posts with name dropping and hyperbole that has no solid basis.
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post #117 of 196 Old 09-08-2013, 10:33 AM
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I agree, Fourteen, a stallion should be the total package and only way to truly prove disposition and tractable natural is to ride them. So many people spout disposition, but what are they like to ride and start?
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post #118 of 196 Old 09-08-2013, 10:53 AM
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^I agree. A stud should be an optimal example of a breed, it's that simple.
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post #119 of 196 Old 09-08-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Zexious View Post
^I agree. A stud should be an optimal example of a breed, it's that simple.
Very much I agree. I'm very happy to have such. Takes quite a bit of research, looking at prospects, time, and money to find excellent stud prospects with great conformation, a great mind, and usability.

Dream is just such a horse and Psynny looks headed in the right direction as well and it is even more satisfying to have such a nice colt bred for the very reasons mentioned.. I am very fortunate and db, I believe you are as well. Star seems a wonderful horse!

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Last edited by Druydess; 09-08-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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post #120 of 196 Old 09-08-2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dbarabians View Post
Druydess once again words of wisdom from a very savvy breeder.
That article rings true not only for the Arabian horse but most breeds.
I do not care about a show record if it only means someone paid the right trainer enough money to teach a horse walk trot and canter round an arena in front of a panel of judges that might not be as impartial as they paid to be.
THE ONLY WAY to prove a stallion is by his get.
He can have dozens of national titles but if he does not pass that gift unto his progeny then he is a failure. Or if the owners of his get do not spend the money to train his offspring he is a failure.
Confromation and temperament are more important to the average horse owner than any show record will ever be. Most horses will never enter a showring. They require no ribbons to validate the quality of their horses.
My stallion Star has never been shown but has an impeccable pedigree and great conformation. He has stamped his offspring with good arabian type, straight legs, versatlity, and great temperament . Those are the only qualities IMO that earn a stallion the right to remain intact. Shalom

While I agree that the only way a stallion really proves himself is by his get, there should be a step before he has any get where he actually proves himself, and it doesn't have to be with a world title. If he is a reiner, get out and rein, jumper, get out and jump, all around trail horse, get out and ride him on the trail.

How many breeds have classification shows? My Haflinger stud was Silver Classified and had a show record, he had proved himself against his breed standard, do other breeds have that?

While conformation and temperament are indeed the most important qualities that an average owner looks for they should not be the prime reason for breeding.

The old adage never changes, breed the best to the best and hope for the best.
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