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Look for in stallion?

18K views 195 replies 24 participants last post by  tinyliny 
#1 ·
Im bery interested in to hear what breeders look for in a stallion. Im going to use this to choose future sires to cover my mares, also to determine whether or not j should cut my colt.
Typically being in the barrel racing world, i look for disposition, conformation in the back and legs, thickness or muscling and i like my horses with wide shoulders to match their rear end. What is there that other breeders think about?
I have a two month colt im starting to watch to see what i should do with him.
 
#2 ·
I look for conformation, temperament, overall picture and use-ability. If you have some twit with a stud, who can't do anything with it except take pictures of it running around a field that is a HUGE turn off. I want to know the stud is a good equine citizen and is being put through his paces!


If you have the space and ability to handle the colt I see no problem with letting him mature to see how he turns out. Unless he's got a bad mind, it never hurts! Do you have any pictures?
 
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#6 ·
I look for conformation, temperament, overall picture and use-ability. If you have some twit with a stud, who can't do anything with it except take pictures of it running around a field that is a HUGE turn off. I want to know the stud is a good equine citizen and is being put through his paces!


If you have the space and ability to handle the colt I see no problem with letting him mature to see how he turns out. Unless he's got a bad mind, it never hurts! Do you have any pictures?
Agreed, the stallion I used wasn't at his peak of...."ability" just yet. The colt is two months old. Pardon his dirtiness and his nibble wounds from momma.
He's a little on the antisocial side, getting more and more curious every day. This might be because I wasn't home the day of his birth :/ Owner of his sire said the stud, Chief, was completely calm at six months.







He's in these two pastures until he is weaned. He'll be moved to a much more...mobile place for him. I don't want him learning bad habits from the filly in this pasture with him :/ Repairing a fence hopefully doesn't take a toll on his attitude being with those few horses.
 
#3 ·
Temperament is a big thing. You want a horse that is gentle and respectful at all times, even when he's going to be doing the deed. You wouldn't want any major conformation flaws - a little one here and there could be overlooked if the stallion has a great personality and otherwise solid conformation.

And yes, you want a horse that you can use. I've met two stallions that I absolutely adore because they are people horses, respectful, and get used. One is a reiner, the other gets used for stockwork, and even when breeding season rolls around, they still have a good head on their shoulders.
 
#7 ·
Temperament is a big thing. You want a horse that is gentle and respectful at all times, even when he's going to be doing the deed. You wouldn't want any major conformation flaws - a little one here and there could be overlooked if the stallion has a great personality and otherwise solid conformation.

And yes, you want a horse that you can use. I've met two stallions that I absolutely adore because they are people horses, respectful, and get used. One is a reiner, the other gets used for stockwork, and even when breeding season rolls around, they still have a good head on their shoulders.
The sire's conformation wasn't /Stellar/. This colt seems to have taken the more from his dam than his sire. I won't really be able to know until the colt is a little older. Sadly, I was hoping the sire would be up to his game by now, but the previous owner of him set him out to pasture after an injury and he hasn't done a thing since. He was such a good stallion. Great temperament, did anything you asked and was like a puppy anywhere you had him. I swear the interest in mares he had didn't exist!
 
#4 · (Edited)
Temperament and a good mind have to be a given. If they're rank or undependable/unpredictable, they're useless to me. I need to be sure these traits are passed on to my foals. Conformation and beauty are also important, else why bother? Versatility and a good work ethic are necessary, but perhaps the most important thing next to a good mind is his ability to produce. The paramount reason to keep a stallion intact IMO is his ability to create outstanding foals. THIS is how he proves himself. Very few are kept just as "buddies." There are too many stallions with titles that produce crap and plenty without them that produce gold. Always look at his get before choosing a stallion, and look for lines that are known to be prepotent.

My two colts, Gold N Psynn-Psyation and Gold N Echo, are the result of a stallion (Golden Ecstasy) with an amazing temperament, beauty, conformation, movement, and great mind. Both colts have inherited all that and more.

My stallion,Obsidian Dream S shares all of the above, easily handled during breeding and he as calm as a cucumber, extremely intelligent- picks things up wicked fast, is curious and friendly, and has no ax to grind. He has passed calmness, a good mind, beauty, type, and movement on to his daughter, Dream of Faery Fire. THIS proves him. The colts I have now, and his other get, prove Golden Ecstasy.

A perfect example of the whole package:



What he produces:












Obsidian Dream S:





What he produces:





(and these are her "ugly" phase)








The proof's in the pudding, so they say! :wink: All the ribbons in the world have no bearing on a sire's innate ability to produce exceptional get. That always has to be proven in the breeding shed.
 
#9 ·
Temperament and a good mind have to be a given. If they're rank or undependable/unpredictable, they're useless to me. I need to be sure these traits are passed on to my foals. Conformation and beauty are also important, else why bother? Versatility and a good work ethic are necessary, but perhaps the most important thing next to a good mind is his ability to produce. The paramount reason to keep a stallion intact IMO is his ability to create outstanding foals. THIS is how he proves himself. Very few are kept just as "buddies." There are too many stallions with titles that produce crap and plenty without them that produce gold. Always look at his get before choosing a stallion, and look for lines that are known to be prepotent.

My two colts, Gold N Psynn-Psyation and Gold N Echo, are the result of a stallion (Golden Ecstasy) with an amazing temperament, beauty, conformation, movement, and great mind. Both colts have inherited all that and more.

My stallion,Obsidian Dream S shares all of the above, easily handled during breeding and he as calm as a cucumber, extremely intelligent- picks things up wicked fast, is curious and friendly, and has no ax to grind. He has passed calmness, a good mind, beauty, type, and movement on to his daughter, Dream of Faery Fire. THIS proves him. The colts I have now, and his other get, prove Golden Ecstasy.

A perfect example of the whole package:

Golden Ecstasy - YouTube

What he produces:












Obsidian Dream S:





What he produces:





(and these are her "ugly" phase)








The proof's in the pudding, so they say! :wink: All the ribbons in the world have no bearing on a sire's innate ability to produce exceptional get. That always has to be proven in the breeding shed.
Definitely a stunning stallion! I agree with you in this post!
 
#8 ·
Barrel Racing and Pole bending horses. Rodeo bred. I breed for the typical conformation of a barrel horse. Thick and low hocks, slightly downhill, thick rear end and shoulder, short back, short thick neck. I like a little bit of height as well.
 
#11 ·
I look for a good quality temperament that is in line with the breed standard (I breed old Spanish stock. I wouldn't want a stallion that has the temperament of a QH as that is not the temperament that a old Spanish horse should have), excellent conformation that makes up for the faults of my mare's, nice movement, and classic old Spanish looks. I also want to make sure that height is a good size and breed accurate. The breed I have does not come in horses taller than 15HH and rarely has horses smaller than 14HH. I am aiming at producing stock that is 14.2HH - 15HH. Perfect size for most people to do dressage with one weekend and conquer Cougar Rock on the next. Not too big to chase a cow well on and not too small that a full grown man couldn't ride. Perfect size IMO.
 
#14 ·
Sometimes you go with your gut. If you have the space and time you let them "grow up" a bit and make another decision. Then you let them mature under saddle and make another decision.

I loved my old stallion - loved his build, loved the mind and conformation he put on his foals. But I gelded every colt he had except 1 - and that one I keep re-evaluating every year *lol* so far at 2 and started under saddle I havent had a reason to cut him yet. . . but he just "screamed" prospect from birth. No intention of breeding him until he is *at least* 5 yrs & has had a career of some sort to prove his worth.
 
#15 ·
I think a stallion must have a great conformation, good mind, versatility and the ability to pass these things on to his offspring.
The only way to prove a stallion for breeding is to breed him.
Look at his offspring, siblings, and sire and dam. That should give you a good idea of what he can do in the breeding shed.
I look at his performance record last especially if it is in the show ring.
Too often, politics and fads determine the winners not ability. Shalom
 
#16 · (Edited)
Exactly. I don't get why some people don't get this.
I have seen people invest in a very nice stallion prospect, spend tons on shows, marketing, campaigning, which take a few years, then another few years of training under saddle, and then shows, where- by this time- if it's done right- the stallion is 5-7 years old, a small fortune has been invested in him- another year to see babies hit the ground, and then- he produces crap. Not a keeper in the bunch. All that time, money, effort, not to mention presupposing a future business reputation that by now, people have been watching- for nothing and now you have babies you can't give away. I have seen this. It does no one a bit of good, least of all the horse.

Personally, I'm going to have proof positive before my hard earned money goes anywhere. Not to mention the politics that IS a major factor in the ring. I've talked with some of the TOP Arabian trainers and what the "winners" do to win would make you sick. None of "us" are likely to win "First" in the big leagues unless we sacrifice our horse and have our faces firmly ensconced in the right peoples' **** to neck level. No ribbon is worth it to me. There may be a few exceptions, but it's not the norm.

In any case, Dream has proven what he can do, and all the shows in the world mean nothing next to the exquisite filly he gave me. SHE will be his best advertisement, and there'll be more of equal, or better caliber in the future.
 
#17 ·
As a growing colt, these are the things I would look for, in order to let him keep his bits entire:

Does he have perfect health? No? Chop them.

Is he as near to perfect an example of his breed type as possible? No? How major are his faults? If you can list more than two glaring faults with his conformation - chop them.

Is his personality desirable? Bearing in mind that stallions should be just as well behaved as geldings or mares, if he has been given the best chance with quality training, and is still a douche - chop them.

Is his pedigree worth continuing? He has 16 full brothers standing stud - chop him. His sire line tends to have foals that "take after the dam side" - chop him. His lines have a tendency towards nut jobs/weak backs/foals that don't sell - chop him.

I would be constantly evaluating a colt as he grew, and constantly asking myself these questions over and over. If I had any hesitation, any second thought about his suitability, I would chop him. IMO, a stallion should be as close to perfect as possible, and anything less should be a gelding.
 
#21 ·
As a growing colt, these are the things I would look for, in order to let him keep his bits entire:

Does he have perfect health? No? Chop them.

Is he as near to perfect an example of his breed type as possible? No? How major are his faults? If you can list more than two glaring faults with his conformation - chop them.

Is his personality desirable? Bearing in mind that stallions should be just as well behaved as geldings or mares, if he has been given the best chance with quality training, and is still a douche - chop them.

Is his pedigree worth continuing? He has 16 full brothers standing stud - chop him. His sire line tends to have foals that "take after the dam side" - chop him. His lines have a tendency towards nut jobs/weak backs/foals that don't sell - chop him.

I would be constantly evaluating a colt as he grew, and constantly asking myself these questions over and over. If I had any hesitation, any second thought about his suitability, I would chop him. IMO, a stallion should be as close to perfect as possible, and anything less should be a gelding.
This is exactly what i'm doing!

He's had amazing health since birth, no problems. He's just been the typical colt to gets himself hung up in a fence from being curious.

So far on his conformation I haven't seen any obvious faults. I'm no expert though. Most people say he's to young to judge at two and a half months old. I'm not sure how true that is.

He seems to have taken his sire's personality. They are almost exactly the same. Calm, curious. Patient.

As for his pedigree. The stallions only been bred twice. His first colt was never registered, his bloodlines are desirable in the area of our knowledge. The sire is the only one left from my colts grandsire. The stallions sire and grandsire were ran off cliffs a few years back.

I haven't been to hesitant with him, then again. I'm no expert.
 
#18 ·
First thing I will do when goings into breeding, is study the mare. I will want her to have proven that she is true to her breed, has good conformation and has proven to show that she has ability in whatever field she has worked in.

Having decided on breeding her, I will then look for a stallion that has better conformation than the mare on her weaker side.
He should have proven his breeding worthiness by having competed and won.

Conformation passed my eye, I will want to see him trot up in hand to see how straight he moves. Temperament counts for a lot though, I have seen very good proven stallions be a bit mouthy or ansty early in the season. Some, also through mishandling can be downright nasty but, in the right hands and work, turn right around.
If the horse has stood at stud for a few years I would want his prodigy to be winning.

I would want to see some of his young stock to assess what he was throwing.
When there are genetic problems as in some breeds, I would expect the stud to have checked for the genes and have the paperwork to prove he was clear.
 
#20 ·
Conformation, health, temperament, usability, and intelligence are the foundation for a good stud. However, how he holds up under the rigors of training and performance absolutely HAVE to be considered when you are looking at the "big" picture. Do people pay money to look at a beautiful horse standing in his pasture? Do you end up in the Olympics because your horse is intelligent and has perfect conformation? Does your horse make it to be a national champion reiner solely because of his bloodline? It is the success of that horse's career that makes it a valuable commodity. Look at pedigree write ups. They focus on the success of the horses in the bloodline. Are they successful for standing in a stall or pasture, or are they successful at some form of competition?
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#22 ·
I believe strongly in line and inbreeding . It is the surest way to set type .
My Stallion Star is related to every mare I own except the TB's an QH's.
it is the one reason I considered buying him. After his conformation and temperament. So that is one of the major things I look for in a pedigree of any stallion that I breed to or stand to my own mares.
Rushing Sam my newest stallion is a perfect outcross for Stars fillies I might keep. No Bask in his pedigree or The Minstrel either. Both of those stallions are the lines I have based my breeding program on. Shalom
 
#23 ·
I guess inbreeding isn't one of those things I get. How can we make laws that keep humans from inbreeding because we know it will produce inherent problems in offspring, yet we don't seem to have a problem doing it to/with our animals? Personally, I'd rather have a more diverse gene pool.
 
#24 ·
Inbreeding doesn't "produce" problems, it can highlight them is all. The problems have to be in the genetic code to start with. Inbreeding doesn't cause mutations, or two headed foals, or anything like that.

Comparing horses to humans in something like this is like comparing apples and oranges. Horses don't have any sense of "family" - they have a sense of herd, but care nothing for blood relationships.
 
#25 ·
All pure bred animals are inbred.
The TB breed derived from 3 arabian stallions, the morgan from 1. Several other breeds have a single stallion as their source.
Inbreeding has been practiced for thousands of years.
As far as humans are concerned the book of Genesis is full of incest.
Abraham married his own sister, their son married his Uncles daughter, His son married his Uncles daughters that is a pretty tight gene pool IMO. Blessed by G-D. Shalom
 
#26 ·
Yeah, well we have inbreeding to thank for many problems that plague purebreds of any species. For example, German Shepherds are notorious for hip dysplasia, Daschunds for back problems, English Bulldogs for breathing issues, the list goes on. Just because it is done on a routine basis, doesn't mean that it is healthy. I just prefer my horses to have a more diverse gene pool.
 
#28 ·
ArabMama , inbreeding has been used for thousands of years since animals were domesticated.
The Kiger Mustangs have a very narrow gene pool yet no hereditary issues.
When breeding our cattle we either breed the bull back to his own daughter or his granddaughter. Never both . With very good results and have for decades. We do not however use a bull we have bred.
However all Santa Gertrudas cattle are descendants of a bull bred on the King Ranch .
Our calf crop every year is uniform and with very little disease and no genetic problems.
Like it or not line breeding and inbreeding are important and will continue.
You must be careful when choosing the sire and dam more so than with distantly related animals.
IMO the more distant the animal is related to its mate the more chances faults . Shalom
 
#29 ·
If I had a colt I was thinking of keeping intact(highly unlikely) then I would first sit down and ask these questions;
-does he fit my goals? If not a resounding yes, snip,snip.
-how is his conformation? If not close to perfect, with only very minor flaws, same result as above.
-How is his temperment/attitude? If its not A+++ he gets snipped.
-How are his bloodlines? are they truly desirable? If not, a good stallion makes a fantastic gelding.

Those would be asked of the colts periodically as it grew, if at any time the answer changed to one of those questions, then off to the vet he goes. When he turned 3 or so I would start saddle training, and if he excelled at that, I would breed him to one or two good quality mares. Then I would evalute the foals the next spring and decide wether to proceed with training, showing and advertizing. If at any point I had doubts, or he didnt pass a test with flying colors, he would be loosing his jewels.

the fact is, there are too many poor/fair/good quality foals on the ground, but few exceptional ones. There are far too many poor/fair/good quality stallions siring those foals. The number of people who have a "flashy arabian stallion", "Race winning thoroughbred stallion" or a paint or appy with "color, color, color!!" that want $300 for a stud fee and will breed anything with a uterous, but have poor temperments, faulty conformation, and in all other ways are at best, mediocre.

keeping a stallion is a pain, and breeding is expensive. A friend of mine had a thoroughbred colt with stellar bloodlines, incredible conformation, tons of tallent and an A+++ disposition. she debated when he was two keeping him a stallion. she had doubts, and got him gelded. at three he proved to be an incredibly fast, successful race horse, but there were no regrets. he gets to play with the herd, enjoy other horses and run in the big pasture, while the stallion stays separated from everyone, with just a goat and donkey for company.
 
#30 ·
Bluespark the 2 mature stallions here might take a little more of my time but allow me to assure you they are no pain.
I also do not agree with waiting to train a stallion under saddle and show him before breeding him to a few mares.
Most breeders that I know of feel the same way.
Cassius is now 15 months old. He will breed a couple of mares next spring probably before he is 2.
Then again the next spring. I believe the only way to prove any stallion or mare of being worthy is to breed them. If after 2-3 small foal crops he does not measure up he will be sold and or gelded.
I refuse to have a horse trained before they are 3-4 years of age.
Why waste that time feeding and caring for a horse that might not meet my expectations. It is a waste of time and money IMO. Shalom
 
#31 ·
Most breeders that I know of feel the same way.
Cassius is now 15 months old. He will breed a couple of mares next spring probably before he is 2.

I'm sorry, but BEFORE he is 2? You will have to explain your reasoning behind that, that makes no sense, you are in essence breeding a foal.
 
#32 ·
the 2 mature stallions here might take a little more of my time but allow me to assure you they are no pain.
I said keeping a stallion IS A pain, not IS IN pain. I don't know anyone that would disagree that they require additional effort in care, housing, and management. You can throw a gelding in the trailer with your mares, trailer to say a public trail ride or show, and not worry. A stallion typically needs to be separated from mares, and sometimes geldings, needs a more knowledgeable rider, and needs special housing wherever he goes. Our competitive trail association requires that they be away from other horses and contained by two methods, such as tied to a trailer, within a panel fence. They go after all other horses for vet checks. At home they need better fencing(often higher, stronger and electrified), and careful choice of companions.

I don't see the point in breeding to 2 or 3 mares before you even know how a horse will take to saddle training. And if the stallion turns out to be horrid under saddle? then what? Many colts are not even ready to breed before 2.
 
#33 ·
Apparently people need to know that they can reproduce, and therefore they do not need to saddle train. I would much rather know the horse has the capabilities to stand up to training and be good at something other than proving his testicles work...
 
#34 ·
Bluespark my stallions are no more of a pain to care for than the other 29 horses I own. I did not say they were in pain.
Cassius was purchased as a stallion prospect.
Not a show horse. He will be shown in hand next spring and when he is 3 or 4 trained under saddle. He will only be shown regionally. I have no desire to go to Nationals or the Egyptian Event
I do not place much importance on a show record. Too many times who trained or exhibited the horse is a determining factor in the ribbon count.
Cassius has outstanding conformation and was bred to be an arabian sport horse.
Why wait until he is trained and competing in Dressage to start his breeding career? That would not be a very good business decision on my behalf.
If he doesnt measure up in the breeding shed I can cut my losses at 4-5 instead of 9 or 10. Plus there should be offspring competing and he will have proven himself the only way a stallion ultimately needs to....by throwing good colts with sound minds and great conformation.
No one has to agree with me about it. It is my money, my time and my horse.
I am 54 next Sept 1. He should be my last stallion to promote and stand.
I dont have decades to wait for results. Shalom
 
#37 · (Edited)
It is an a$$backwards approach to spend thousands on shows, time, and effort, for a dubious collection of ribbons, or lack thereof due to ring politics only to find out your stallion isn't prepotent enough to produce well. If people want to wait and see if it all works out after 6-8-10 years, well good on them, but I don't see the sense in that approach. I also will know up front IF my stallion(s) are worth dumping the time and money into.

I got the same BS about breeding Dream at 3 years old db. The usual crap about him being ruined, he'll turn into an unmanageable monster, how dare I, I won't be able to handle him, etc..ad nauseum. (Not from the Arabian breeders I know though) Some even went so far as to spread rumors that I bred him as a yearling.. Small minds can not entertain the possibility that each stallion is different and some mature earlier than other as well as the different tractability they may have. The judgmental, superior attitude is best ignored when it comes to horses. If I listened to such claptrap, Fae and Psynny, the exquisite results of MY choices, both wouldn't exist. If I listened to some idiot telling me Solei was a POS mare that would never level out and would never produce anything good, or that my stock is just mediocre, well I'd be wasting my time entertaining fools.

Solei leveled out and apparently outproduces herself, as I thought. Dream remained a calm, easily handled stallion, as I thought, and is a gentleman breeder as a 3 year old; no fuss and perfect breeding manners. He breeds on a loose line. He is more laid back than half of my mares. (And they are quiet, calm mares).

I too will breed Psynny as a 3 year old if he remains as he is mentally, and whoever has heartburn about it can go pound sand in a rat hole.. :wink:
As you said.. MY money; MY time; MY horses. Apoplectic fits by others are entirely unimpressive.

It's time to stop the cookie-cutter mentality/approach and look at each horse as an individual. So far, I'm extremely happy with my program and how it is evolving, so I will continue to do what works, and works well.
 
#38 ·
Druydess anyone who says your horses are mediocre has an agenda not an eye for good horse flesh.
Cassius will not be bred to any mare until he has dropped and returned from the trainers this winter or early next spring. I have never seen a stallion drop earlier than 18 months and I dont expect him to until almost 2.
He is a big boy and will take longer to mature than other colts.
If the trainer thinks he needs more time he will get it.
It is about training and handling a stallion that makes them a pain at times.
Both mine can be lead through a herd of mares with most of them in heat with only rope halters.
Now I am not going to post any negative remarks.
I have received some disturbing results from a biopsy on Friday.
Everyone of us is entitled to our opinion. Lets remember that
I am now focusing on positive posts and remarks. I have other things now in my life to consider and negative remarks are an unnecessary distraction. Shalom
 
#41 ·
I guess this is where breeders of race horses have it "easier". A horse that has not proven themselves on the track rarely gets bred, stallion or mare. Also, there are no judges, per se, only the clock. A horse that doesn't take a good mark will not be stood, a mare may be bred if she has good breeding and only an average mark. But breeding a mare with only a time trial mark or that is unraced GREATLY reduces the value of their colts. I have a nice mare that has decent breeding but when she was trained she got down to about 2:20 and was "roaring". This is something that is pretty easy to fix with minor surgery but we had 3 other horses in training, one that had had some vetting, so we decided to stop with her and I broke her to saddle. She will never put a foal on the ground because she did not race and take a mark. I also believe in line breeding, however, I have seen some AQHA pedigrees that, to me, are just scary. I will say that my experience is with standardbreds, not other racing breeds.
 
#42 ·
I did not say they were in pain.
sorry, read it wrong.

My point was:
-there are far too many mediocre horses(foals, broodmares and stallions) out there. If I had to guess, I would say at least 75% of stallions standing at studs should never have made it past the yearlings intact.
-most people do not know how to properly handle a stud, while in hand, being ridden, or even breeding a mare.
-a FAR higher percentage of stallions will challenge fencing to get at mares or defend their area/herd. That is why, generally speaking, they need higher fencing.
-I believe stallions need to prove themselves, with pedigree, conformation, temperament and ideally, trainability. The number of stallions around here that are never even started under saddle is ridiculous. I believe if you are breeding for saddle horses, the stallion should at least show an aptitude for it, such as excelling in basic saddle training. I'm not talking about waiting until they have 10 years of training, just seeing how they accept the saddle, bridle and rider, doing basic maneuvers. If you are a responsible breeder who wants to do differently, up to you, but the above is my preference.

I have know stallions that kids could lead through a herd of in heat mares without batting an eyelash. I have ridden this same stallion(ottb) with 5 mares, 4 of which were in heat, on a trail ride, with him better behaved then most geldings. I have also seen a stallion, housed in a 6' board fenced pasture on one corner of the property, break out of corral by bashing his chest against the boards until they broke, jumping the remaining boards, running across the property before smashing through another 5' 2x6 corral to get at the other stallion. their corrals were hundreds of feet apart, with a house, barn, and many trees in between.

I think a properly handle stallion is wonderful, but too many people lack the experience, or even desire to handle one the right way.
 
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