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Look for in stallion?

This is a discussion on Look for in stallion? within the Stallions and Broodmares forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        08-16-2013, 06:35 PM
      #21
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    As a growing colt, these are the things I would look for, in order to let him keep his bits entire:

    Does he have perfect health? No? Chop them.

    Is he as near to perfect an example of his breed type as possible? No? How major are his faults? If you can list more than two glaring faults with his conformation - chop them.

    Is his personality desirable? Bearing in mind that stallions should be just as well behaved as geldings or mares, if he has been given the best chance with quality training, and is still a douche - chop them.

    Is his pedigree worth continuing? He has 16 full brothers standing stud - chop him. His sire line tends to have foals that "take after the dam side" - chop him. His lines have a tendency towards nut jobs/weak backs/foals that don't sell - chop him.

    I would be constantly evaluating a colt as he grew, and constantly asking myself these questions over and over. If I had any hesitation, any second thought about his suitability, I would chop him. IMO, a stallion should be as close to perfect as possible, and anything less should be a gelding.
    This is exactly what i'm doing!

    He's had amazing health since birth, no problems. He's just been the typical colt to gets himself hung up in a fence from being curious.

    So far on his conformation I haven't seen any obvious faults. I'm no expert though. Most people say he's to young to judge at two and a half months old. I'm not sure how true that is.

    He seems to have taken his sire's personality. They are almost exactly the same. Calm, curious. Patient.

    As for his pedigree. The stallions only been bred twice. His first colt was never registered, his bloodlines are desirable in the area of our knowledge. The sire is the only one left from my colts grandsire. The stallions sire and grandsire were ran off cliffs a few years back.

    I haven't been to hesitant with him, then again. I'm no expert.
         
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        08-17-2013, 02:23 AM
      #22
    Trained
    I believe strongly in line and inbreeding . It is the surest way to set type .
    My Stallion Star is related to every mare I own except the TB's an QH's.
    It is the one reason I considered buying him. After his conformation and temperament. So that is one of the major things I look for in a pedigree of any stallion that I breed to or stand to my own mares.
    Rushing Sam my newest stallion is a perfect outcross for Stars fillies I might keep. No Bask in his pedigree or The Minstrel either. Both of those stallions are the lines I have based my breeding program on. Shalom
         
        08-17-2013, 04:04 AM
      #23
    Foal
    I guess inbreeding isn't one of those things I get. How can we make laws that keep humans from inbreeding because we know it will produce inherent problems in offspring, yet we don't seem to have a problem doing it to/with our animals? Personally, I'd rather have a more diverse gene pool.
    TamarackLane and NBEventer like this.
         
        08-17-2013, 04:58 AM
      #24
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arab Mama    
    I guess inbreeding isn't one of those things I get. How can we make laws that keep humans from inbreeding because we know it will produce inherent problems in offspring, yet we don't seem to have a problem doing it to/with our animals? Personally, I'd rather have a more diverse gene pool.
    Inbreeding doesn't "produce" problems, it can highlight them is all. The problems have to be in the genetic code to start with. Inbreeding doesn't cause mutations, or two headed foals, or anything like that.

    Comparing horses to humans in something like this is like comparing apples and oranges. Horses don't have any sense of "family" - they have a sense of herd, but care nothing for blood relationships.
    Druydess, doubleopi and Aesthetic like this.
         
        08-17-2013, 09:07 AM
      #25
    Trained
    All pure bred animals are inbred.
    The TB breed derived from 3 arabian stallions, the morgan from 1. Several other breeds have a single stallion as their source.
    Inbreeding has been practiced for thousands of years.
    As far as humans are concerned the book of Genesis is full of incest.
    Abraham married his own sister, their son married his Uncles daughter, His son married his Uncles daughters that is a pretty tight gene pool IMO. Blessed by G-D. Shalom
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        08-19-2013, 04:18 AM
      #26
    Foal
    Yeah, well we have inbreeding to thank for many problems that plague purebreds of any species. For example, German Shepherds are notorious for hip dysplasia, Daschunds for back problems, English Bulldogs for breathing issues, the list goes on. Just because it is done on a routine basis, doesn't mean that it is healthy. I just prefer my horses to have a more diverse gene pool.
         
        08-19-2013, 05:44 AM
      #27
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arab Mama    
    Yeah, well we have inbreeding to thank for many problems that plague purebreds of any species. For example, German Shepherds are notorious for hip dysplasia, Daschunds for back problems, English Bulldogs for breathing issues, the list goes on. Just because it is done on a routine basis, doesn't mean that it is healthy. I just prefer my horses to have a more diverse gene pool.
    No, the blame isn't on inbreeding. The blame is on irresponsible breeders who put type before health. Completely different issue.
         
        08-19-2013, 07:40 AM
      #28
    Trained
    ArabMama , inbreeding has been used for thousands of years since animals were domesticated.
    The Kiger Mustangs have a very narrow gene pool yet no hereditary issues.
    When breeding our cattle we either breed the bull back to his own daughter or his granddaughter. Never both . With very good results and have for decades. We do not however use a bull we have bred.
    However all Santa Gertrudas cattle are descendants of a bull bred on the King Ranch .
    Our calf crop every year is uniform and with very little disease and no genetic problems.
    Like it or not line breeding and inbreeding are important and will continue.
    You must be careful when choosing the sire and dam more so than with distantly related animals.
    IMO the more distant the animal is related to its mate the more chances faults . Shalom
    Druydess likes this.
         
        08-19-2013, 10:38 AM
      #29
    Started
    If I had a colt I was thinking of keeping intact(highly unlikely) then I would first sit down and ask these questions;
    -does he fit my goals? If not a resounding yes, snip,snip.
    -how is his conformation? If not close to perfect, with only very minor flaws, same result as above.
    -How is his temperment/attitude? If its not A+++ he gets snipped.
    -How are his bloodlines? Are they truly desirable? If not, a good stallion makes a fantastic gelding.

    Those would be asked of the colts periodically as it grew, if at any time the answer changed to one of those questions, then off to the vet he goes. When he turned 3 or so I would start saddle training, and if he excelled at that, I would breed him to one or two good quality mares. Then I would evalute the foals the next spring and decide wether to proceed with training, showing and advertizing. If at any point I had doubts, or he didnt pass a test with flying colors, he would be loosing his jewels.

    The fact is, there are too many poor/fair/good quality foals on the ground, but few exceptional ones. There are far too many poor/fair/good quality stallions siring those foals. The number of people who have a "flashy arabian stallion", "Race winning thoroughbred stallion" or a paint or appy with "color, color, color!!" that want $300 for a stud fee and will breed anything with a uterous, but have poor temperments, faulty conformation, and in all other ways are at best, mediocre.

    Keeping a stallion is a pain, and breeding is expensive. A friend of mine had a thoroughbred colt with stellar bloodlines, incredible conformation, tons of tallent and an A+++ disposition. She debated when he was two keeping him a stallion. She had doubts, and got him gelded. At three he proved to be an incredibly fast, successful race horse, but there were no regrets. He gets to play with the herd, enjoy other horses and run in the big pasture, while the stallion stays separated from everyone, with just a goat and donkey for company.
    MsBHavin and TamarackLane like this.
         
        08-19-2013, 03:20 PM
      #30
    Trained
    Bluespark the 2 mature stallions here might take a little more of my time but allow me to assure you they are no pain.
    I also do not agree with waiting to train a stallion under saddle and show him before breeding him to a few mares.
    Most breeders that I know of feel the same way.
    Cassius is now 15 months old. He will breed a couple of mares next spring probably before he is 2.
    Then again the next spring. I believe the only way to prove any stallion or mare of being worthy is to breed them. If after 2-3 small foal crops he does not measure up he will be sold and or gelded.
    I refuse to have a horse trained before they are 3-4 years of age.
    Why waste that time feeding and caring for a horse that might not meet my expectations. It is a waste of time and money IMO. Shalom
    Druydess likes this.
         

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    desirable, geld, stallions, traits

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