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Look for in stallion?

This is a discussion on Look for in stallion? within the Stallions and Broodmares forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        08-19-2013, 03:25 PM
      #31
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    Most breeders that I know of feel the same way.
    Cassius is now 15 months old. He will breed a couple of mares next spring probably before he is 2.

    I'm sorry, but BEFORE he is 2? You will have to explain your reasoning behind that, that makes no sense, you are in essence breeding a foal.
         
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        08-19-2013, 03:56 PM
      #32
    Started
    Quote:
    the 2 mature stallions here might take a little more of my time but allow me to assure you they are no pain.
    I said keeping a stallion IS A pain, not IS IN pain. I don't know anyone that would disagree that they require additional effort in care, housing, and management. You can throw a gelding in the trailer with your mares, trailer to say a public trail ride or show, and not worry. A stallion typically needs to be separated from mares, and sometimes geldings, needs a more knowledgeable rider, and needs special housing wherever he goes. Our competitive trail association requires that they be away from other horses and contained by two methods, such as tied to a trailer, within a panel fence. They go after all other horses for vet checks. At home they need better fencing(often higher, stronger and electrified), and careful choice of companions.

    I don't see the point in breeding to 2 or 3 mares before you even know how a horse will take to saddle training. And if the stallion turns out to be horrid under saddle? Then what? Many colts are not even ready to breed before 2.
    NdAppy, MsBHavin and TamarackLane like this.
         
        08-19-2013, 04:11 PM
      #33
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlueSpark    
    I said keeping a stallion IS A pain, not IS IN pain. I don't know anyone that would disagree that they require additional effort in care, housing, and management. You can throw a gelding in the trailer with your mares, trailer to say a public trail ride or show, and not worry. A stallion typically needs to be separated from mares, and sometimes geldings, needs a more knowledgeable rider, and needs special housing wherever he goes. Our competitive trail association requires that they be away from other horses and contained by two methods, such as tied to a trailer, within a panel fence. They go after all other horses for vet checks. At home they need better fencing(often higher, stronger and electrified), and careful choice of companions.

    I don't see the point in breeding to 2 or 3 mares before you even know how a horse will take to saddle training. And if the stallion turns out to be horrid under saddle? Then what? Many colts are not even ready to breed before 2.
    Apparently people need to know that they can reproduce, and therefore they do not need to saddle train. I would much rather know the horse has the capabilities to stand up to training and be good at something other than proving his testicles work...
         
        08-19-2013, 04:41 PM
      #34
    Trained
    Bluespark my stallions are no more of a pain to care for than the other 29 horses I own. I did not say they were in pain.
    Cassius was purchased as a stallion prospect.
    Not a show horse. He will be shown in hand next spring and when he is 3 or 4 trained under saddle. He will only be shown regionally. I have no desire to go to Nationals or the Egyptian Event
    I do not place much importance on a show record. Too many times who trained or exhibited the horse is a determining factor in the ribbon count.
    Cassius has outstanding conformation and was bred to be an arabian sport horse.
    Why wait until he is trained and competing in Dressage to start his breeding career? That would not be a very good business decision on my behalf.
    If he doesnt measure up in the breeding shed I can cut my losses at 4-5 instead of 9 or 10. Plus there should be offspring competing and he will have proven himself the only way a stallion ultimately needs to....by throwing good colts with sound minds and great conformation.
    No one has to agree with me about it. It is my money, my time and my horse.
    I am 54 next Sept 1. He should be my last stallion to promote and stand.
    I don't have decades to wait for results. Shalom
    Druydess and Celeste like this.
         
        08-20-2013, 02:12 AM
      #35
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlueSpark    
    I said keeping a stallion IS A pain, not IS IN pain. I don't know anyone that would disagree that they require additional effort in care, housing, and management. You can throw a gelding in the trailer with your mares, trailer to say a public trail ride or show, and not worry. A stallion typically needs to be separated from mares, and sometimes geldings, needs a more knowledgeable rider, and needs special housing wherever he goes. Our competitive trail association requires that they be away from other horses and contained by two methods, such as tied to a trailer, within a panel fence. They go after all other horses for vet checks. At home they need better fencing(often higher, stronger and electrified), and careful choice of companions.

    I don't see the point in breeding to 2 or 3 mares before you even know how a horse will take to saddle training. And if the stallion turns out to be horrid under saddle? Then what? Many colts are not even ready to breed before 2.
    I ride my stallion out on trails, he trailers with other mares and is even pastured right next to mares. He competes at local events and has no problem. His fencing is the standard 4 1/2 to 5 ft high twisted wire fence. No electricity or piping.

    At local events mares have peed around him and he wouldn't budge, Trail rides next to mares all day. He wouldn't even sniff or mount a mare unless a vocal command was given. Stallions like him exist more than you believe.
         
        08-20-2013, 09:25 AM
      #36
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MsBHavin    
    Apparently people need to know that they can reproduce, and therefore they do not need to saddle train. I would much rather know the horse has the capabilities to stand up to training and be good at something other than proving his testicles work...
    As long as he is fertile I know he can reproduce. As long as he is sound and with his conformation he should be, he can "stand up to training" or whatever that means.
    As inbred as he is to Thee Despardo and Ansata Ibn Halima I am not worried about what he can reproduce. The genetics are there.
    Breeding a horse that is sexually mature will NOT have a negative affect on his mental or physical development.
    It is apparent someone places a lot of faith on what they read on the internet, not in an actual breeding program. Shalom
    Druydess and HorseLovinLady like this.
         
        08-20-2013, 09:54 AM
      #37
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    Bluespark my stallions are no more of a pain to care for than the other 29 horses I own. I did not say they were in pain.
    Cassius was purchased as a stallion prospect.
    Not a show horse. He will be shown in hand next spring and when he is 3 or 4 trained under saddle. He will only be shown regionally. I have no desire to go to Nationals or the Egyptian Event
    I do not place much importance on a show record. Too many times who trained or exhibited the horse is a determining factor in the ribbon count.
    Cassius has outstanding conformation and was bred to be an arabian sport horse.
    Why wait until he is trained and competing in Dressage to start his breeding career? That would not be a very good business decision on my behalf.
    If he doesnt measure up in the breeding shed I can cut my losses at 4-5 instead of 9 or 10. Plus there should be offspring competing and he will have proven himself the only way a stallion ultimately needs to....by throwing good colts with sound minds and great conformation.
    No one has to agree with me about it. It is my money, my time and my horse.
    I am 54 next Sept 1. He should be my last stallion to promote and stand.
    I don't have decades to wait for results. Shalom
    It is an a$$backwards approach to spend thousands on shows, time, and effort, for a dubious collection of ribbons, or lack thereof due to ring politics only to find out your stallion isn't prepotent enough to produce well. If people want to wait and see if it all works out after 6-8-10 years, well good on them, but I don't see the sense in that approach. I also will know up front IF my stallion(s) are worth dumping the time and money into.

    I got the same BS about breeding Dream at 3 years old db. The usual crap about him being ruined, he'll turn into an unmanageable monster, how dare I, I won't be able to handle him, etc..ad nauseum. (Not from the Arabian breeders I know though) Some even went so far as to spread rumors that I bred him as a yearling.. Small minds can not entertain the possibility that each stallion is different and some mature earlier than other as well as the different tractability they may have. The judgmental, superior attitude is best ignored when it comes to horses. If I listened to such claptrap, Fae and Psynny, the exquisite results of MY choices, both wouldn't exist. If I listened to some idiot telling me Solei was a POS mare that would never level out and would never produce anything good, or that my stock is just mediocre, well I'd be wasting my time entertaining fools.

    Solei leveled out and apparently outproduces herself, as I thought. Dream remained a calm, easily handled stallion, as I thought, and is a gentleman breeder as a 3 year old; no fuss and perfect breeding manners. He breeds on a loose line. He is more laid back than half of my mares. (And they are quiet, calm mares).

    I too will breed Psynny as a 3 year old if he remains as he is mentally, and whoever has heartburn about it can go pound sand in a rat hole..
    As you said.. MY money; MY time; MY horses. Apoplectic fits by others are entirely unimpressive.

    It's time to stop the cookie-cutter mentality/approach and look at each horse as an individual. So far, I'm extremely happy with my program and how it is evolving, so I will continue to do what works, and works well.
    HorseLovinLady likes this.
         
        08-20-2013, 10:20 AM
      #38
    Trained
    Druydess anyone who says your horses are mediocre has an agenda not an eye for good horse flesh.
    Cassius will not be bred to any mare until he has dropped and returned from the trainers this winter or early next spring. I have never seen a stallion drop earlier than 18 months and I don't expect him to until almost 2.
    He is a big boy and will take longer to mature than other colts.
    If the trainer thinks he needs more time he will get it.
    It is about training and handling a stallion that makes them a pain at times.
    Both mine can be lead through a herd of mares with most of them in heat with only rope halters.
    Now I am not going to post any negative remarks.
    I have received some disturbing results from a biopsy on Friday.
    Everyone of us is entitled to our opinion. Lets remember that
    I am now focusing on positive posts and remarks. I have other things now in my life to consider and negative remarks are an unnecessary distraction. Shalom
         
        08-20-2013, 10:31 AM
      #39
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbarabians    
    Druydess anyone who says your horses are mediocre has an agenda not an eye for good horse flesh.
    Cassius will not be bred to any mare until he has dropped and returned from the trainers this winter or early next spring. I have never seen a stallion drop earlier than 18 months and I don't expect him to until almost 2.
    He is a big boy and will take longer to mature than other colts.
    If the trainer thinks he needs more time he will get it.
    It is about training and handling a stallion that makes them a pain at times.
    Both mine can be lead through a herd of mares with most of them in heat with only rope halters.
    Now I am not going to post any negative remarks.
    I have received some disturbing results from a biopsy on Friday.
    Everyone of us is entitled to our opinion. Lets remember that
    I am now focusing on positive posts and remarks. I have other things now in my life to consider and negative remarks are an unnecessary distraction. Shalom
    I know db, believe me..

    Negativity is a curse on the internet and serves no purpose. Please let me know if I can be of any help medically.
    HorseLovinLady likes this.
         
        08-20-2013, 10:31 AM
      #40
    Trained
    Such a shame that more breed registries don't have the same rules as the Haflingers do, you can't register a foal unless both sire and dam were older than three at the time of mating, seems like a sensible idea to me.
         

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    desirable, geld, stallions, traits

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