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Stallion behaviour 'n' stuff

This is a discussion on Stallion behaviour 'n' stuff within the Stallions and Broodmares forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        04-01-2013, 02:33 PM
      #41
    Yearling
    I had a big post written (including photos) and it disappeared into web space ...
    The jist of it being, I have seen successful "bachelor" groups done by other breeders, and I generally do try to keep stallions with other stallions or geldings whenever it is possible. IME I have had a lot of success, but it doesn't always work out.

    There are a lot of factors and management that go into it though, and at the end if the day you need to ask yourself if it's right for you and your individual horses.

    I have one guy here right now who has a pony gelding who is his buddy - that pony is the only male horse he seems content to live peacefully with, and there have been times (in early spring) where I have even separated them because the play was getting too serious. (It's all fun and games until someone goes too far)

    I choose to try to keep stallions with geldings/studs, especially when they are young because I fully believe it is best for their mental health - but I don't blindly throw random horses together, I keep them on LARGE acreage, I don't house mares nearby, and I am always prepared (with extra help) to separate and keep them alone. Once they become mature, and/or have been bred, I keep a close eye on them and will separate when it is noted that there are more territorial postures happening.

    I have noted that a well socialized colt generally makes the best candidate for bachelor grouping... But even then, dynamics can change once he starts breeding.

    If you choose to try... Get to know your stud well first, ensure he sees you as supreme boss - that alone has allowed me to break through hormones in cases where the boys need separating. (When it is ingrained in a horse's mind that when you show up and give a command, he MUST listen) NEVER get between two fighting horses, and always be prepared for the horses to have other ideas about what makes a good buddy.
    I can add more later when I get back from playing with my horses.
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        04-01-2013, 05:13 PM
      #42
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scubadreams    
    The problem I have with your statement regarding if he becomes too aggressive or unstable that you would geld him then...you would be "pride cutting" him and he would still have all the same problems only without the beans.
    This is not actually true anymore in most parts of the world. I had this question for our vet when we gelded a mature stallion who had been bred in the past, and he said that provided you do the full gelding procedure (having watched a few of these now, they remove the testicles and another, I want to say gland of some sort - I did ask once, but have forgotten what he called it (it looks a bit like a mini brain... Which led to tons of jokes. :) ) the horse is a gelding, and after 6 months to a year should not produce testosterone in high enough levels to have hormone related stallion behaviors anymore. (Now, there are a host of stallion behaviors that are learned or conditioned too... And let's not kid ourselves, a gelding is still a stallion when it comes to how he thinks - it's just that his motivation is changed)

    "Proud cut" is apparently what will happen if you only remove the testicles from a sexually mature stallion. (Sexual maturity, he explained, varies from horse to horse and is different than their physical maturity).
         
        04-01-2013, 05:22 PM
      #43
    Trained
    Actually a "proud cut" horse is a horse that still produces testosterone. This is typically due to his anatomy being a little bit wrong so that part of the testicle is left behind. The epididymis is mistaken for an undersized testicle rather than only part of it. The main bulk of the testicle is retained in the body and the person removing it thinks that they got it all.
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        04-02-2013, 06:28 PM
      #44
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Left Hand Percherons    
    I have worked with non breeding stallions. I worked for a well known arab breeder who had 9 stallions but only stood 3 of them. The non used stallions ranged in age from 4-12. They were all exquisite animals but not the "flavor" of the day back in the height of the Bask craze. They were all worked daily and turned out a minimum of 1/2 day and could interact with each other in the barn. They were well socialized and received top care. The older ones were nice to be around but the young ones were jerks and dangerous if you gave them an inch. They were an invaluable introduction to stallion ownership.


    Just because they weren't being used because they weren't of popular bloodlines, does that mean they need to be gelded? (I'm not asking you directly Left Hand Percherons, just in general) What about preserving bloodlines and genetic diversity?

    I'm all for removing reproductive organs, but at some point...Meh, it's the internet, who know who has what sort of experience, truthfully.
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        04-03-2013, 01:25 AM
      #45
    Yearling
    If you don't have any intention of breeding him, then geld him. Its not fair and its not right to keep him like that and say, "Oh no you can't do what your mind is telling you to do," and so on.

    Maybe collect some of the 'goods' and geld him now and then in the future see if anyone would like to buy them. I have heard that is what a lot of people are doing now.
         
        04-03-2013, 01:30 AM
      #46
    Yearling
    Just like your planing on saving the stallion form the kindness of your heart, out of that same kindness, geld him. I promise you will not regret it. He will love you forever.
         
        04-03-2013, 02:12 AM
      #47
    Trained
    I do not trust my stallion with another male equine. Not even the donkey. A foal or colt under 2 maybe but not a gelding and never another stallion.
    I have already had one gelding savaged by him. I keep him at least 2 fences away from other males.
    If there were no mares within a few miles I might consider it. Most of the horses I own are mares so there are always mares cycling here. Shalom
         
        04-03-2013, 02:51 AM
      #48
    Super Moderator
    I have handled many stallions. I am of the opinion that one must be very experienced to handle them well. I am sorry but I don't get the feeling that you are very well trained in dealing with stallion behavior. If you do not know what you are doing, they can become unpredictable and even dangerous....not only to you but to other people and equines.

    I would say that always WANTING a stallion is not good enough. I would suggest you find a stallion station or breeding operation in your area and offer to work with the purpose of learning what to do when stallions exhibit their normal, but unsettling, behaviors. Learn from people who do it every day. You just may decide that the REAL responsible is more than you want.
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        04-03-2013, 03:14 AM
      #49
    Green Broke
    You want experiences?

    My neighbor has a gelding that wasn't gelded until he was 13. He is HELL BENT on killing geldings. He attacked my horse (I was unaware of the situation and idiot neighbor who KNEW, threw up some crap fence attached to mine and put his gelding next to mine) and I ended up with massive vet bills and now have my gelding boarded for his safety.

    Stallion down the road from us broke down his gate, proceeded to bash through or tear down everyone's fences, bred one mare and then he and the neighbor's gelding got into a massive fight. Once again... the Vet won. Stallion ended up with multiple sets of stitches, the gelding had 45 stitches and 2 drains. I ended up with the gelding at my place and having to go out there and change bandages, re-open and clear the drains and administer meds multiple times a day.

    Their sweet as pie Stallion? Took 12 people to catch him and FOUR people, a stud chain and multiple whips to catch. He wanted to keep on going down the road and create hell at other people's places too!

    Last thing I want is a Stallion. I don't even want a late-gelded horse ever again. I am so tired of playing the "Well who can we turn him out with.... not geldings, he'll beat 'em up or mount them. Not mares, turns into a love-sick psycho with zero brain cells if you take them away".... my halter-horse stallion turned gelding is stuck with a couple minis because that's all we have that is intelligent and fast enough to not stand around and let him torture them. He loves his minis..... and he hates his minis....
         
        04-03-2013, 09:47 AM
      #50
    Yearling
    If you are not wanting to breed from him then geld him. I have 2 stallions 11 and 7, 2 colts 7 and 1 and a 7 year old gelding that all live together, the 2 colts will be gelded at some point though. The only time we have had any injuries is when I had two mares down near the boys temporarily and they broke out of their field when across the road and broke into the boys field. The only ponies I don't trust in that field is the gelding and the 7 year old colt. The 7 year old colt if wild. Only on of these boys have ever bred and he is the bottom of the pecking order, he is such a fuss around any other pony. Maybe I have just been lucky but that isn't the case for everyone. They do on occasion play fight but it is play and no one gets hurt.









         

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