i have been wanting to breed my APHA mare. The Ultimate Fancy really caught my eye. he seems well put together and from the videos of him i have seen he seems to have a kind mind. i have seen pictures/videos of several of his foals and they seem real nice.
what are your thoughts on him?
i will try to get some decent pics of my mare this weekend. i dont have any good confo shots of her at all. i would like your opinion on if you think they would be a good match. her registered name is Showtime Specialty. she is on allbreedpedigree if you want to see her lineage
i have raised/started foals in the past and i will be keeping the foal. i would love it if the foal has color but i know he/she could come out solid and that is fine with me too.
i am hoping to get a good all around horse. i dont show or compete in anything anymore (i showed in english hunter/jumpers for years when i was younger) i want something i can take on trails and pleasure ride on. i ride both english and western. i want something that i can use to play on barrel patterns for fun but doesnt need to be fast or anything (i have taken my retired english jumper to a couple "fun day" gymkhanas and was more than happy just doing a slow canter through the patterns. im not trying for ribbons i just want to go out and have fun with my horse). i would like to be able to do some really low jumping with the horse for fun at home (less than 3' courses).
so im not looking to create a foal that really specializes in anything. i just want a horse that i can do a little of everything with and just have fun.
here are a few pics of my mare. none of them are great pics. in the 1st pic she looks awkward to me for some reason. i think its because of how she was carrying her head/neck. this picture is also from a few years before i got her but it is the best side shot i could find for now.
the 2nd and 3rd pics with the purple halter are from right after i brought her home they are not a great angle and she needed to put on a couple lbs at the time.
I do not like the angle of his croup. very steep reminiscent of a halter (extreme halter) horse.
there is something else i dont like about him and i can't put my finger on it. something about his back and his legs.
Not only is he an accomplished all around stallion, but he is also good looking and his foals are desired in the market. If crossed with your mare, you will get pinto coloring for full APHA registration and a strong chance of a well built all around baby as you desire to get through breeding.
Sunny, did you look at their other stallion Dun It With A Whiz? I think I like him and the looks of his foals better although Bekah would still end up with the possibility of a solid foal from the crossing but if she's going to keep the foal and doesn't care about color it doesn't matter. He's N/N for frame so no worries there.
I used google for the stallion the OP had posted, he is negative on LWO and I think he was clear for 5 panel but would have to google him again to be sure...
Stallion I suggested is negative for everything (5 panel, HYPP, splash & frame)
There is however a chance that the mare is HYPP positive, I looked at her pedigree on allbreed and her sire line goes directly to Impressive (his son that goes to the OP's mare is N/H for HYPP but the next three horses from him to the OP's mare on allbreed don't state their HYPP status).
I second the opinion to test the mare for the 5 panel, HYPP and frame before making a decision Posted via Mobile Device
i tested my mare a while ago and she is HYPP, HERDA, and Frame negative. she carries the SW1 splash gene
here is a link to her pedigree Showtime Specialty Paint
Well, she's clear for all the main "ugly" stuff. I would still want to know if she carries PSSM1, GBED and MH, just so you can make well informed decisions. Even if you end up breeding to a stallion who is clear for everything, it's nice to know if she carries anything as some of those can be symptomatic for a carrier.
i personally really like The Ultimate Fancy. i just wanted to hear the opinions of others. i want to make sure i look at all options and that im not wearing blinders about him since i have met a couple horses out of him and fell in love with them. i have seen videos of him (at leisure in a field where i could see him moving out and using himself naturally) and there is something about him that i really like. one of the things i like most about him though is that he is known to throw babies that have willing minds and great dispositions.
the other stallion i have been considering is HBF Catch My Irons (i attached a couple pics of him). he is not as well known but i had someone point me towards him a while back and he has really grown on me. what are your thoughts on him? i really like him, except for the shape of his head(i wish it was a little more refined. i think some of it is just because of his markings though). he does carry frame but my mare does not so that doesnt really affect anything. here is a video of him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iQqzG8SeaM
he is out of HBF Iron Man. the only reason i did not consider HBF Iron Man is that i do not want a grey foal and i know that would be a 50% possibility with him.
The sire of the stallion pictured is grey, the OP really likes the stallion's sire but not the chance of grey. The pictures aren't old/outdated as that particular son didn't get the grey gene ;-)
I do notice that the OP is consistently choosing stallions which are bred to be discipline specialized not all around horses like they say they want in a foal... The best way to increase your chances of an all around baby is to breed a talented all around mare to a talented all around stallion Posted via Mobile Device
From the OP's post "HBF Catch My Irons (i attached a couple pics of him). "
He is a sorrel son of HBF Iron Man, also a frame carrier and negative on the 5 panel. That is the son the OP is interested in, not his grey sire that the OP likes except for the grey ;-) Posted via Mobile Device
Ah OK! Well, anyhow, since we don't know the grey status of the son (is he too young to have greyed out in those pics, stuff like that), if she doesn't want a grey foal the easiest way to ensure that is to not breed to a horse who may go grey.
here is a better conformation shot of The Ultimate Fancy. i would love to hear some more critiques on him now that there is a better picture to judge by. what are his strong/weak points in comparison to my mare?
im still a little stuck on him but if he is not a good cross for her i want to know exactly why so that i can finally move on in my mind.
Functional horse conformation is about geometry...mostly angles.
To move a limb a certain distance requires a certain degree of angle in the joints.
To move a front leg from vertical, to horizontal(a stride length) the shoulder has to have enough closed up angle to then stretch the leg OUT. This horses shoulder has almost no angle, so his front leg can only move out a little bit.
His hindquarter is the same. From his hip, to his butt, back to his stifle, there is an open angle.
I wish I could draw lines on the picture for you, but I can't. They are very helpful. You might look at some older posts and find some lines drawn, or google them!
Ditto what Greentree said, and just to add my .02 worth, I still don't like his head, the shape of his neck (plank-y) and his goosey looking rump, not to mention all the wonky angles. He's a pretty color and flashy pattern, and trust me as much as I'm a sucker for a pretty red horse with lots of chrome, I wouldn't touch him.
his neck also looks as long as his body. that could e how he is standing though ad my mare can make her head look big in pics. but still. i would not breed him to your mare. you will not get an all round horse. you will gt a HUS and a WP horse.
You will NOt get a HUS horse
Far as all around, that depends at the level you wish to show at, or where that horse has shown. There are lots of 'jack of All trades, master of none.
For some reason, none of the images come up for me when I click on Image links
When you look at a stallion, you do not look just at the horse, or what he himself has done, as you aren't buying that stud.
You look at what he produces, and what those babies have done. Then you look at what type of mares he has nicked with well.
This is also the reason young stallions, even with a good show record, never demand the price of a stallion that has several generations of offspring out there, doing well
So, if stallions are going to be compared here, lets compare production records
after reading everyone's commentary on The Ultimate Fancy i can see what you are talking about. now that i take a closer look at him i am seeing a few things that i dont like. after looking at his pictures for more time than i care to admit over the last few days i can see some of his faults and that he would not compliment my mare in a way that would give me the baby that i want. i have met a couple of his babies and really loved their temperaments, and i am a sucker for his coloration. i think that is why i wasn't really seeing his conformation before.
i still really like HBF Catch My Irons. i like his thoroughbred influence, his shorter back and his longer legs. i know that different people have different opinions about back length but from my years of showing Hunter Jumpers my trainers always leaned towards shorter backed horses. i also like his movement from the videos i have seen of him.
i would like to hear a couple more critiques of HBF Catch My Irons and what you think the strengths/weaknesses would be crossing him with my mare.
i am not looking for a baby that is fast and compact. i mainly just want something that can take me around some low hunter jumper type courses for fun.
i looked at the stallions that everyone suggested. Huslers Deck Of Stars is nice. i had trouble finding a good confo shot of him. he looked pretty downhill in the pics i could find but i don't know if its just the pics or not.
hes a cool hotrod from the stallion pages of the grey horse.
again to downhill for my taste but glancing at him he is pretty.
I would not pick a fine boned horse, look for something with some bones to him, not twigs for legs. watch shoulder angle, croup angle and that they are not cow or sickle hocked,
I would not want a sickle hocked horse , this shape / is not good for a hind leg.
I just want to say I think it is ridiculous that you have let these people talk you out of breeding your mare to The Ultimate Fancy. In your original post, you said you want to keep the foal, you don't want to show, and you just want a horse that will be fun to own and fun to do low-level jumping and trail riding with. Yet you are listening to people that are being over-the-top critical as if you are trying to breed for an Olympic champion. I think you need to circle back around and remember what your priorities are. If you want a truly GREAT horse, and not just a PERFECTLY CONFORMED show horse, you need to focus strongly on mind, temperament, and trainability. For these qualities, you just can't beat a TUF. You've already experienced this yourself. I have too. He throws minds like I've never seen, which is why I've been his devoted fan for more than 10 years. Heck, even if you did want a show horse, he's like number 5 or 6 on the APHA leading performance sires list! You don't get there without offspring that are winning in the show pen! One of his 2 year olds won a reserve Congress championship in HUS last year, proving his versatility as an all-around sire! I think your mare would be an amazing match for Tuf. If I didn't know any better, I'd think she was a Tuf daughter actually. You would get a gorgeous baby that would be in your pocket and as easy to train as a dog. I trained my first Tuf colt when I was 18, completely inexperienced, and it was easier than training my German Shepherd. They just love to please, and they want to be with their person. You would not regret breeding to Tuf, and I encourage you not to let yourself completely forget your priorities and be totally influenced by people trying to show off their knowledge of conformation by nitpicking over every little imperfection. No horse is "perfect," and by listening to the people on this forum talk, most of today's leading sires are complete trash. Take their opinions with a grain of salt and make your own decision!
I encourage you not to let yourself completely forget your priorities and be totally influenced by people trying to show off their knowledge of conformation by nitpicking over every little imperfection. No horse is "perfect," and by listening to the people on this forum talk, most of today's leading sires are complete trash. Take their opinions with a grain of salt and make your own decision!
I don't think anyone here is trying to "show off". She asked for opinions and she got them. Ultimately, it's her decision and her money. I don't much care for his looks in his ads. But if I had intimate knowledge of him, I could feel very different, since I DO value mind and temper above looks and "perfect" confo any day in the week.
She totally should make up her own mind whether to use him or not, no one here has to live with her decisions, so we should not trump her feelings with ours. I'm definitely in the corner of, "go with your gut", since I allowed myself to be talked out of using 2 stallions I liked very much and have regretted those decisions.
I'm in the Short Back Camp, I believe they have fewer back problems later on when ridden.
Ask for an opinion on a public forum.....get some opinions. If everyone just said, "oh, he is pretty!", and he was awful...how would THAT be helpful?
Just like showing...asking for one person's opinion on that particular day.
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