I have two pairs of TuffRider breeches. On the left are the knee patch children's size 16 ($15), great condition, no rips or tears, Velcro on the bottom. On the right are a size ladies 24, warm, great for winter riding, like new (I only used them for showing), those are $20. Both of the, just don't fit right anymore. Both of them fit similarly in the waist, there's just a length difference.