I bought two pairs of these breeches from Dover maybe two years ago. Due to an error in the catalog I thought I was getting full-seat breeches but they turned out to be knee patch instead. Rather than paying to send them back I just kept them, thinking "well hey I can still use them". I've concluded, though, that they are just too big in the waist for me. I am going to keep one pair for winter riding because I can wear long underwear underneath, but I decided that I don't need two pairs of too-big breeches. The pair that I'm selling here is the one that I've only worn a handful of times.