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Looking for current information on the status of the Great Western Trail

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    10-10-2012, 12:24 AM
  #21
Yearling
Thats a National Park for you. Bryce Canyon NP is not any better. You have to stay on the trail. If you meet the guided horses coming your direction, You have to back up to the last cross or intersecting trail and go down that trail so the guided horses can pass. They will ticket you for side passing off the trail to allow them by. ( and the guides always have the right-away, it's assumed your horse, you know how to ride it, Guided horses with tourist don't know how to ride)

You want to make sure before you start down the Bryce Canyon Peek-a-boo trail that you checked with the guide outfit and found out when they expect their horses to be coming back up the trail.

But you are correct about most of the west. In fact after the cattle get done with the grazing permits, who will notice a few hoof prints
     
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    10-10-2012, 01:18 PM
  #22
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Painted Horse    
Thats a National Park for you. Bryce Canyon NP is not any better. You have to stay on the trail. If you meet the guided horses coming your direction, You have to back up to the last cross or intersecting trail and go down that trail so the guided horses can pass. They will ticket you for side passing off the trail to allow them by. ( and the guides always have the right-away, it's assumed your horse, you know how to ride it, Guided horses with tourist don't know how to ride)

You want to make sure before you start down the Bryce Canyon Peek-a-boo trail that you checked with the guide outfit and found out when they expect their horses to be coming back up the trail.

But you are correct about most of the west. In fact after the cattle get done with the grazing permits, who will notice a few hoof prints
You know, I was a fed govt employee for 23 years and had finally had enough of the goofy stuff. Not that I'm anti-government or anything, but some of the decisions some folks make that bind everybody are really goofy. Problem is that they don't know how goofy it is when they make the decision, sitting there in their office, then you have the folks who have to enforce the goofy rule, all the while knowing how goofy it is, then you get folks like us who expect them to use common sense, but they can't because it's a rule, then we all get crosswise and nobody is happy. Huff...puff...ok. I'm done.
     
    10-11-2012, 11:12 AM
  #23
Green Broke
I hate those goofy, not though out rules we put up with in our daily lives. Anytime now I'm expecting to hear I have diaper my horse in wilderness areas if I want to ride there. I don't know anything more natural than an animal taking a dump in the great outdoors. Why am I expecting this? Because of all the comments I get from hikers about how disgusted they are having to step around horse apples.
bsms and thenrie like this.
     
    10-11-2012, 11:44 AM
  #24
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin    
I hate those goofy, not though out rules we put up with in our daily lives. Anytime now I'm expecting to hear I have diaper my horse in wilderness areas if I want to ride there. I don't know anything more natural than an animal taking a dump in the great outdoors. Why am I expecting this? Because of all the comments I get from hikers about how disgusted they are having to step around horse apples.
You can't imagine my surprise, being a western boy, when I learned that horses are not allowed on the Appalachian Trail. I was looking forward to trying a ride from Florida to Canada while I'm out this way, but when I started the research found out the trail is for hikers only. Ah well, too many people live out here anyway. Too many people, too many goofy rules. What is that Isaiah said?

"Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!" (Isa 5:20)

You know, Arizona has taken some great strides in putting an end to a lot of those goofy rules in their forests. After the devastating fires of the past several years in AZ, several counties got together and passed resolutions defying the USFS. Over the past 10 years or so, the USFS has been closing roads and restricting access to the forests, not allowing vehicular traffic and not allowing any logging. The result has been forests that are over grown with undergrowth and with small trees growing too close together. Now with the closed forests, there is no way to control fires either. The old logging roads are overgrown and not passable. So several AZ counties passed resolutions telling the USFS that the roads are county property and that the counties are responsible for the welfare of their citizens, therefore they are going to re-open the forests and all the closed roads in perfect defiance of the USFS. So far the USFS has not challenged it. We'll see what happens. I've been told other states are watching to see what happens. I expect Utah will follow suit and do the same thing.
Celeste likes this.
     
    10-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #25
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenrie    
@BSMS
That looks like the Rincons in the background. I spent my high school years in Tucson...
Yep, those are the Rincons. I went to Santa Rita High School back when it was brand new. When I retired from the Air Force, Tucson seemed too crowded and too expensive. We're on the south edge of Vail.

Here are some pictures of central Utah from our vacation there a couple of weeks ago:







The guy in the picture was told his winter allotment for his cattle is being cut 85%. He's trying to get the BLM guy to go out into the desert to see the land with him and convince him otherwise. If not, he may have to sell his herd of cattle and go back to all sheep until he can find other grazing. He thought his odds were good...haven't talked to him to see how it came out.

He once was told all allotments were being cut 50% permanently. He said, "That won't affect me, because I'm only running 15%!" The government guy replied all allotment were being cut based on the number RUNNING, not the number paid for. And no, that guy had never gone to see the land he was supposed to be managing. That was 25 years ago, and he nearly lost his ranch.

Another old college room mate was working for the state and sharing an office with the US Forest Service. The USFS guys were constantly complaining about the "maggots", a term they applied to both cattle and sheep. They wanted to remove ALL domestic animals from the forest and reintroduce grizzlies...
     
    10-11-2012, 01:16 PM
  #26
Weanling
In the old days, the USFS, BLM, and the Farm Bureau were govt entities dedicated to assisting ranchers and farmers in successfully ranching and farming. They actually did a lot of good in helping them develop water sources and access to range areas. Nowadays the government attitude is to protect the forests and ranges FROM the ranchers and farmers. It coincides with the environmental movement. I can't say the environmental movement is all bad, but it surely has swung the pendulum way too far to one side in recent years, for my taste. I suppose it is hard, these days, to find a person with the education and qualifications to hold decision-making positions in agencies like BLM and USFS who is not an "environmentalists", but it would sure be nice if an administration (ie, president) would appoint heads of agencies who are sympathetic to farmers and ranchers and get the agencies back in balance and assisting farmers and ranchers in being successful using environmentally sound methods. In Arizona all they think about is increasing the elk and deer herds, which are already at historic highs. You can now pick up range leases for a pittance, because you sure can't make a living on them.

I think the main problem is that a large portion of the population of the US lives in the most densely populated parts of our country, so they really don't see all the environmental issues and the impact of what they vote for. All they know is that they want to preserve the environment. It's sad that folks who only take occasional vacations into the western lands make so much policy for those who actually live and make their living there, without fully understanding the real issues and the effect their votes have.

Back a while, there was a company in Panguitch, Utah called Verd's Best that made the best honey you could buy. They went out of business when I was in high school. I was told it was because the BLM came to them and told them they were going to have to pay a fee of 25 cents per hive because their bees were using BLM land to produce honey. Since it was a family business, they simply didn't want to deal with the govt any more, so they quit and retired.

I'm hoping that one can still ride their own horse/mule through the Grand Canyon by the time I make my trip. That's something I have wanted to do all my life. From what I read, you can still do it, as long as you stay on trails approved for horse travel, camp only in designated camp grounds, take your own feed, and travel at your own risk (you are responsible for removing dead or injured animals at your own expense). I imagine it won't be too long before only registered outfitters under contract with the park are allowed.

Enough politics. Better get back to info about the GWT and AZT. Fun discussion, though, and thanks for the pics.
     
    10-11-2012, 03:15 PM
  #27
Trained
The environmentalists would be less irate if it weren't for the few ranchers that actively want to remove most of the native wildlife from government lands. Loud mouths on both sides cause themselves and others problems.
     
    10-12-2012, 01:08 AM
  #28
Yearling
Utah has been fighting the Federal Govt for over a decade for roads in Southern Utah. Some of those battles were in place before Clinton signed into effect the Grand Staircase Escalante, So I know they date back into the at least the mid 90's.

Kane county in particular has defied the feds and sent road graders into closed roads to grade and maintain them. So those battles are not coming, They have been ongoing for 15 or more years.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ted-roads.html
     
    10-12-2012, 10:38 AM
  #29
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenrie    
You can't imagine my surprise, being a western boy, when I learned that horses are not allowed on the Appalachian Trail. I was looking forward to trying a ride from Florida to Canada while I'm out this way, but when I started the research found out the trail is for hikers only. Ah well, too many people live out here anyway. Too many people, too many goofy rules. What is that Isaiah said?

"Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!" (Isa 5:20)

You know, Arizona has taken some great strides in putting an end to a lot of those goofy rules in their forests. After the devastating fires of the past several years in AZ, several counties got together and passed resolutions defying the USFS. Over the past 10 years or so, the USFS has been closing roads and restricting access to the forests, not allowing vehicular traffic and not allowing any logging. The result has been forests that are over grown with undergrowth and with small trees growing too close together. Now with the closed forests, there is no way to control fires either. The old logging roads are overgrown and not passable. So several AZ counties passed resolutions telling the USFS that the roads are county property and that the counties are responsible for the welfare of their citizens, therefore they are going to re-open the forests and all the closed roads in perfect defiance of the USFS. So far the USFS has not challenged it. We'll see what happens. I've been told other states are watching to see what happens. I expect Utah will follow suit and do the same thing.
Same issue here in Oregon with our state and federal lands. Difference here is they are actively removing what roads are there to protect water sheds. When I say removing they are not blocking off the roads, they are ripping them out with heavy equipment. Makes it just that much harder to fight fires on badly managed gov't lands.
bsms likes this.
     
    10-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #30
Trained
Ripping them out is just dumb. That will cause erosion. And of course they need to be able to fight fires. And how is mass destruction with bulldozers less invasive than somebody riding a horse?
Where do people get these ideas?
     

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