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Predator on my back

This is a discussion on Predator on my back within the Trail Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Kaimanua horses
  • Msic behind kaimanua horse

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    08-31-2011, 11:59 PM
  #21
Banned
The word 'becoming' should be replaced with 'become'.

Horses are flight animals, if they viewed us as predators would they not run from us all the time?
     
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    09-01-2011, 12:50 AM
  #22
Started
AlexS No still working on the carrot but not into torture. How to have your cake and never get to eat it. Stare, wanting, at a photo.

Flight animals yes. Run from us all the time. Yes. Until?

We have wild horses in NZ called the kaimanua horses. They are a mixed breed of most breeds, but a little on the small size for me howeve,r with that been said the odd clydesdale has joined the heard and if you have a look at both my horses they have clydesdale in ther breeding. But not Kaimanua.

These horses are periodically rounded up and sold or culled. If you can get a good one and train it they are very bush savy, smart and super quick to react. But you ocassionaly get one that will develop an obsession for carrots

So back to would they not run from us. In the wild horses do run from us, so we are viewed as a predator.
My opinion is they are also inquisitive and it is the use of our ability to mannipulate we get them to firstly respond to us. It is only when caught and with the right owner they change towards us. But at a glance, and from a distance, the horse assesses our body language and reacts.

Do they become emotionally attached to Humans, I believe they do but it takes a considerable amount of time. Can we screw that up in a horse, yes. Check out a horse that has had only one owner and compare it to one that has had several. Dose the one that has had several owners become aloof, unattached. Patches is an example of that.
     
    09-01-2011, 12:51 AM
  #23
Showing
We have to also remember that, while horses were wild for millions of years before the first person rode one, they have also been domesticated for almost as long. Humans can't even really be compared with a predator these days because we don't just go around cutting a horse out of a herd and killing it right there the way a pack of wolves or a mountain lion would. Yes there are more abusive people out there than we would like, but the majority of horse owners aren't that way so horses have been bred for thousands of generations to be around people and to like people, just like dogs. The instincts and reasonings of a modern horse can no more compare with that of a wild horse than your favorite dog can compare with a timberwolf.

I honestly don't believe that modern horses associate a saddle/rider with a predator, I believe it is more the idea that it's just something new and different and constricting. They have to be prepared for it and shown that they won't be hurt, no different than teaching a child to swim. You can't just throw them in the deep end and expect a good result and you can't just strap a saddle on and swing aboard and expect a good result. Contrary to what many people believe about training horses, the vast majority of them never offer to buck at all, and if they are properly prepared, take to it like a pig to slop.
     
    09-01-2011, 12:51 AM
  #24
Yearling
I read most of these comments, and while I agree that horses have evolved since their days of running wild with a couple extra toes. That they have been well domesticated, but I believe there is a hard facility in believing that the horse is anything but a horse. They are not human, they don't understand or think like we do, and to think they are is a grave mistake. When we start pushing human emotions and thoughts into what we think our horses are thinking we start to get spoiled horses, confused. Its easier to get frustrated, easier to get into situations where the horse and you get hurt. We may have bred some compliance and even disposition, but going down to the core, we see the same results with horses in the wild as we do in captivity. In captivity it is all learned behavior from the time they are born.

Its the same with dogs. It is a predatory animal that lives in a pack, treat it such. I do my best to treat my animals as they are, in their place.

I am just a human, my dog is just a dog and my horse is just a horse.

I love all my animals, but never let that get in the way of understanding exactly what they are.
MsBHavin likes this.
     
    09-01-2011, 01:08 AM
  #25
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsesdontlie    
Its the same with dogs. It is a predatory animal that lives in a pack, treat it such. I do my best to treat my animals as they are, in their place.

I am just a human, my dog is just a dog and my horse is just a horse.

I love all my animals, but never let that get in the way of understanding exactly what they are.
See, when I read that line, I wasnt thinking of it in that way. I am a big ceasar mulan fan and I have always actaully treated my dog with his same ideas (however he is the DOG WHISPERER and does it sooooo much better than I could ever dream. And I think that is the same with horses. They are a prey item and you must see through their eyes to understand them.

However when I read "Is your horse just a horse?" it made me think "Is your horse a replaceable object? Or do you really think it has a soul?", which isnt probably not what he meant. Im not sure why I thought that with the simple question. LOL... but some people (ALOT) of people do think of them in that way. They are a means to bring attention to themselves, and after that attention is got then, there is no commitment put into rewarding the horse for letting you ride it.

There is a few young girls around here that like to beat their horses. They think its always the horses fault, and its never theirs. I'd really like to stick them on my horse!!! She's one of those that you don't hit if she doesnt think she did something wrong, lol....but then again, she might end up killing these girls, and there would be lawyers, and....

Anyway the point I was making isnt that I feel my horse isnt a horse and that she is a human-like thing. My point was that a horse isnt a four wheeler. You don't just hop on it and expect it to do whatever you want. Its a partnership (hopefully!! Very hopefully) based on trust. (Like someone had said earlier.)

So long story short!!! I agree, lol....
     
    09-01-2011, 01:20 AM
  #26
Showing
Horsesdontlie, I am most certainly not the type of person to anthropomorphize my horses. I know they think like horses and react like horses; however, they think and react like domesticated horses, not wild horses. Heck, 80% of the horses I've ever dealt with reacted more strongly the first time they saw a llama than they did the first time they saw a human...but a llama is also a prey animal and, thus, cannot be considered a predator, it's just a scary thing.

You can even tell the difference in your normal domesticated stock and feral horses like the mustang. The feral horse that has only been running wild for a few hundred years has a stronger fight/flight instinct. We've been selectively breeding for so long to minimize that instinct (because it's that instinct that gets people hurt) that our riding horses simply cannot be compared with, say, a przewalski horse. They don't have the same instincts in the same potency.
     
    09-01-2011, 03:24 AM
  #27
Started
A horse is just a horse
A dog is just a dog
A cat is just a cat
A human is just a human

Who is the brightest, my money is on the top three
     
    09-01-2011, 03:30 AM
  #28
Yearling
Well, we do pick up their poop.... you don't see many people doing that for us...
     
    09-01-2011, 04:09 AM
  #29
Started
Well there has been plenty of traffic on the subject of a predator and my thoughts for what they were worth have not changed. The basic concept has been argued but not disproved, we are the apex predator. Does the horse become emotionally attached to us is unanswered.
The carrot is still free.
The brightest in the animal world is not us.
It reminds me of a true story of a farmer trying to keep a horse in the paddock. No matter what he did the horse kept getting out. The farmer was over heard saying to his wife.
It does not matter what I do that stupid horse keeps getting out. His wife responded with who is stupid, it is you who can't keep the horse in the paddock.

Any one like country music it goes with horses just like a saddle and pickup trucks.
     
    09-01-2011, 08:42 AM
  #30
Weanling
This has been a great discussion and Stan you are a funny man. ; )
     

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