Can any horse just about do pleasure? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 40 Old 02-26-2014, 12:55 PM
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I agree with Beau. I use to show in 4h on my Morganx horse and we did WP. It was a lot of fun. We had a great time and it was a great learning experience.

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post #12 of 40 Old 02-26-2014, 06:31 PM
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I'm in agreement with the last two posters; I think with a little fine tuning any horse can do just about any discipline--assuming there are no soundness issues, of course!

Does this mean they will be world/international competitors? No, of course not. But low level stuff... sure, why not?

The sensitivity of the internet baffles me.
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post #13 of 40 Old 02-26-2014, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159 View Post
???

Who said it would be acceptable to "long trot and canter quick on a tight rein" for a western pleasure class?

From the 4H rulebook (since we are talking about 4H):


Western Pleasure
-
A good pleasure equine has a stride of reasonable length in keeping with his conformation. He has enough cushion to his pastern to give the rider a pleasant, smooth ride. He carries his head in a natural position, not high
and over flexed at the poll or low with the nose out. The equine should be relaxed but alert and ready to respond to the rider's commands without excessive cueing. When asked to extend the jog, he moves out with the same smooth way of going.

1.Scoring
-Emphasis in this class will be placed on the equine's suitability
as a pleasure mount as evidenced by both the performance in the class and
its general type, conformation, and soundness. Scoring will be based on
performance and on conformation.

2.Class Routine
a)Gaits
1)The walk is a natural, flat-footed four-beat gait. The equine must move straight and true at the walk. The walk must be alert, with a stride of reasonable length in keeping with the size of the equine.
2)The jog is a smooth ground-covering two-beat diagonalgait. The equine works from one pair of diagonals to the other pair. The jog should be square, balanced and with as straight, forward movement of the feet. Equines walking with their back feet and trotting on the front are not considered performing the required gait.
3)The lope is an easy, rhythmical three-beat gait. Equines moving to the left should lope on the left lead. Equines moving to the right should lope on the right lead. Equines traveling at a four-beat gait are not considered to be performing at a proper lope. The equine should lope with a natural stride and appear relaxed and smooth. He should be ridden at a speed that is natural in way of going.
b) All equines will enter the ring in a counterclockwise direction at the walk until they are otherwise directed by the judge. They will then go at least once around the entire ring at each of the three gaits - walk, jog and lope. All equines will then be asked to reverse
and work the same way in that direction. The reverse shall be done by turning away from the rail.
c) After all equines have been worked, the judge may then excuse
equines not to be considered further in the class.
d)The judge may ask for additional work from any of the remaining
equines.
e) All equines being considered for an award shall be asked to back in a straight line a minimum of 3 steps.
f)Only one hand is to be used for reining. The hand chosen (either right or left) shall not be changed during the class. If a rope is carried on the saddle, it must be attached to the side opposite the reining hand. One finger is allowed between the reins except when romal reins are used. The rider may hold the romal or ends of the split reins provided it is held at least 16" from the reining hand.




If you want to get nit-picky about descriptions in rule books, the 4H rules say nothing about how fast or slow each gait should be. But only that the gaits needs to be natural and smooth for the individual horse, and in a stride length that is suitable for the horse. I'd much rather see a horse traveling a little faster at the lope and have it look natural and smooth and a pleasure to ride, than see a horse be forced into a lope that is too slow for them to physically carry and it looks hideous and uncomfortable.

By that definition, why can't ANY horse be taught to travel straight, relaxed, smooth, and on a loose rein, and do well at a small local show like 4H? Why is that doing it wrong?

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that I've been doing western pleasure WRONG all these years just because I don't have a horse that is capable of doing this:



And on that thought, any show that is low-level local (and for fun) is doing all their events WRONG because the horse's aren't world-caliber and "doing it right" as you call it.

Because it IS a discipline and there is the right way and the wrong way, pretty much like ANY discipline. Examples; there is a right way to do Dressage and a wrong way, and here's another one...there's a right way to jump a course and a wrong way.

And I NEVER said the horse has to be world caliber, so don't even throw that out there.

And have you been to a 4H show lately and seen a WP class??

I disagree with you...that's all. I've shown WP through the ranks, at small shows, big shows, local fun shows, big open circuits, breed shows, schooling shows, fairs, and 4H shows (for 7 years) since 1963...and I stand by what I say. There is nothing worse than seeing a frustrated horse trying to do WP, a frustrated exhibitor wonderng why they didn't place...nothing good comes from it.
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post #14 of 40 Old 02-27-2014, 12:58 AM
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"Do it right" has more to do with the training the horse and the rider IMO.

Low-level showing is the best place to start learning how "to do it right."

I say go for it! Might as well give it a try, you never know what might happen and even if you don't think you have "the right kind of horse" its more about learning and training - that's what makes it fun!

I make my horses learn just about everything I can get a hold of even if they are the wrong type for that discipline or don't show a natural "gift" for it. Do they win at anything? Nope not really - but I don't compete much... but what we do do is "do it right" what ever we choose to do ;)
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post #15 of 40 Old 02-27-2014, 09:47 AM
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Go for it! Your horse will let you know if it's conformation isn't quite right and it does take time to build the muscles to do these slow gaits. I don't get the western pleasure class and I've shown in it. One never sees a horse in the field do that goofy ultra slow lope or jog. The rider is rigid. Where's the pleasure???
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post #16 of 40 Old 02-27-2014, 09:53 AM
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2)The jog is a smooth ground-covering two-beat diagonal gait

I guess technically it is ground covering as the horse is moving but it's not what I consider ground covering when I can walk faster.
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post #17 of 40 Old 02-27-2014, 09:59 AM
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This is 4-H. My daughter has taken a finished barrel horse and is using her in WP. She can jog (not half walk, but jog) lope, (not trope, lope) collected, and slowly. Does she look like she's moving? Yep, but she's always placed well in 4-H level. Would she make it at world? No, but she has held her own at local open shows as well. The real question is: how broke is the horse? Can they rate to the level of a slow jog and a slow, collected lope?

There is a push in the WP world for real movement as of late. I think that actually helps people who have horses with natural movement.

And remember, 4-H is about trying different things. For that level, there is no reason under the sky not to do it. Plus, barrel/gaming horses NEED that change of pace to keep them sane. Go for it.


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post #18 of 40 Old 02-27-2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fowl Play View Post
Plus, barrel/gaming horses NEED that change of pace to keep them sane. Go for it.
Yes, yes, yes, YES! I 100% support giving barrel horses something to do to take their minds off of patterns/working towards running patterns as well as giving them a reason to slow down once in awhile. It makes for a MUCH more rounded horse IMO.

I took Sock into a handful of WP and western equitation classes a few years ago. He was green as grass and we were passing people on the rail constantly but his gaits were natural, and after about the 3rd class he really settled into things and collected. Apparently we weren't that bad, because we actually placed a few times! A lot of the WP "veterans" there weren't doing so well because the judges were obviously looking for movement and collection, not just slow. There were lots of frustrated riders on peanut rollers that day which I found encouraging. If they're judging that way at a local show, it gives me hope that maybe it's happening elsewhere too!
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post #19 of 40 Old 02-27-2014, 07:24 PM
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[QUOTE=Fowl Play;4852026]This is 4-H. My daughter has taken a finished barrel horse and is using her in WP. She can jog (not half walk, but jog) lope, (not trope, lope) collected, and slowly. Does she look like she's moving? Yep, but she's always placed well in 4-H level. Would she make it at world? No, but she has held her own at local open shows as well. The real question is: how broke is the horse? Can they rate to the level of a slow jog and a slow, collected lope?

There is a push in the WP world for real movement as of late. I think that actually helps people who have horses with natural movement.

And remember, 4-H is about trying different things. For that level, there is no reason under the sky not to do it. Plus, barrel/gaming horses NEED that change of pace to keep them sane. Go for it.[/QUOTE]

Oh...I agree with you on that! But I've found that the gamers do well with HMS and Trail....something that makes them think on their feet, they get to move out a little more, and their minds are engaged as they need to be for timed event. WP is just a little bit different, but you know that because your daughter does WP. Especially for a timed event horse....when you have that long expanse of rail on the long side...to keep one rated and relaxed can be hard. Sure WP is about what was is natural for the horse, BUT the big key in it is...no matter what level....is RELAXATION at all 3 gaits. That always does mean super slow, but it DOES means a relaxed horse, on a loose rein, that know how to rate and stay there.
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post #20 of 40 Old 02-27-2014, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses guys! I will post a video of both my horses on here and would love some crituque on how they are doing. I AM going to be showing this summer WP and halter classes with both of my geldings. ( So i have experience and am not just going straight to fair)..

I do agree my boys won't make it to world shows and dont have the sloooooooooow jog and lope. but within me working on all this i have gotten my boys to listen to my seat and leg cues 10000% more so either way its helping:)
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