Dressage VS. Western Pleasure - Page 26 - The Horse Forum

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post #251 of 265 Old 08-22-2012, 11:44 AM
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Well it's all damaging really :)

When I think of rollkur, it's not just a hyperextended stretch and then a release. It's being put into that hyperextended stretch then being made to work that way while holding the hyperflexion.
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post #252 of 265 Old 08-22-2012, 11:52 AM
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Sounds good. :) (not the rolkur, I mean, lol)



Last edited by oh vair oh; 08-22-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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post #253 of 265 Old 08-22-2012, 12:48 PM
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WP is big in VA, mostly northern and central. Frying Pan and Culpeper hold big WP shows.

I live 5 minutes from a huge AQHA show barn owned by Connie Christopher.
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post #254 of 265 Old 08-22-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by franknbeans View Post
Like I said-must not be Nova...I had to drive 45 min just to go to a barn where I could ride my own horse western. But then, I wanted an indoor, too.
LOL....that's ok. I live in MA and my horse was at my trainer's in CT, 90 miles away....so the drive was 1.5 hours each way.
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post #255 of 265 Old 08-22-2012, 04:45 PM
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I don't know, down here in Texas I see a lot of riders who flex their horses into their shoulders and then give them a big release after they've held them a while. I might be wrong on what the "definitive" technique of rolkur is, but it usually involved hyperflexing the horse behind the vertical to stretch the neck and promote softness. It's a controversial technique that can be damaging if done for too long and too hard. I train my horses through complete softness, and will sometimes pull them into their shoulder and let them move through it for a couple strides at the jog. Then they are released into a complete drape and carry themselves very nicely. But I've prepared them in such a way that the hyperflexion comes with very little resistance. And I rarely do it on a horse that isn't finished, and I rarely do it at all. Maybe it's not true "rolkur". I don't know. I'm not saying anyone else should do it, and I'm not saying ALL western pleasure riders do it, but I see it a lot in the south, whether it's good or bad I'm not to judge.

I probably should've just kept my big mouth shut to begin with
I've seen some of what I could call ALMOST rollkur at AQHA shows, but not often. But what happens is....the horse then tends to bow up in the neck on a draped rein and that is a HUGE no-no in the show pen. It shows intimidation to the judge...the horse appears intimidated and TOTALLY backed off the bit, instead of picking it up and holding it. The flexion or "softness" as a result is a bow in the neck further down...not good, and not what is wanted from the judges. It's a death sentence so to speak. The flexion or softness is looked for in the poll and a nice "break" at the wither. Rollkur won't get you that. The people I DO see getting more towards true Rollkur in a WP horse....simply don't have a clue and get no where in the show pen.
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post #256 of 265 Old 08-22-2012, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tasunke View Post
WP is big in VA, mostly northern and central. Frying Pan and Culpeper hold big WP shows.

I live 5 minutes from a huge AQHA show barn owned by Connie Christopher.
I would have no idea who that is, or where, sorry. Plus, my horse is not AQHA. I use a trainer in MD when I decide I need my horse near home in the winter. Otherwise he is n NY. I initially looked and got disgusted with the attitudes around me, anywhere close. Noses in the air, "You ride WESTERN?" like I was from Mars. Lol. I USED to do H/J-I am over it.

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post #257 of 265 Old 08-28-2012, 09:47 AM
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Very interesting discussion.

Funny timing too since I just discovered a dressage/jumping barn near where I board my barrel racing horses and I thought it would be neat to learn some English over the winter months in their indoor.

I also found it interesting how barrel racing always seems to be on the butt of jokes when discussions get hot. Despite that my barrel horses also learn how to do competitive trail, horsemanship, reining, roping, etc. Do we do it well? Not really. But it's just local small shows, it's fun for me, and good for their minds, and overall improving them and improving me. I also wanted to be able to enter in the dressage and jumping events. Hence why I want to take lessons this winter.

I'm totally PRO-cross-training. And I don't get hung up on technical terms, because what one person calls one thing, will be known as something completely different by someone else. Just like how one thing can be trained through process A or it also can be trained through process B and still end up with the same end result. It's human nature. Just like how I can sit here and "read" a book (in the present) or how I could have "read" that book last week (in the past tense). Exact same word. Different meaning.

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post #258 of 265 Old 08-28-2012, 11:32 AM
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I think what happens with barrel racing is that it's considered more of a game or sport than a riding discipline.

I totally think that horses should be able to do more than one thing. I think they NEED it honestly - their brains and bodies do better when things are changed up here and there.
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post #259 of 265 Old 08-28-2012, 12:04 PM
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Part of the problem with Speed events is that at the lower levels the people who do it and really the kids think it is all about the speed. They spend very little time really training their horses and the horses rear and act like fools. When you get to the higher levels and the horses who are really competive at that level are very differnet.

I am starting to get involved with mounted shooting and watching how these people work their horses I find disconcerning. Will have to see as I get more into it how it really goes. I know I will not change how I train regardless of what others do.
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post #260 of 265 Old 08-28-2012, 12:10 PM
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^^Oh absolutely. I agree (and know, because I see it) that there are some horrible speed event riders out there that give the rest of us a bad name. Speed event and gaming shows are so convenient and easy because they technically don't require any special training (because anyone can run around 3 barrels, right?), they don't require any special tack or show clothes (typically), and there is no judge. Only the time clock. And the time clock could care less if your horse bucked and crow-hopped through the entire event. Or if you jerked on your horse's mouth to get that sharp turn. Or if you whipped and spurred your horse to get them to stop the clock faster.

I know the bad rep is out there, but it just always irks me when it gets played on.

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