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Dressage VS. Western Pleasure

This is a discussion on Dressage VS. Western Pleasure within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Western pleasure
  • Cowboy dressage vs western dressage

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    08-06-2012, 02:14 PM
  #21
Green Broke
Isnt bareback the foundation of modern riding? Some genius had to go "hey I wanna ride that!" before some other genius made a chair for it.
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    08-06-2012, 02:20 PM
  #22
Super Moderator
I think the reason the OP said that Dressage is considered the base of all riding is that it's a codified method of teaching balance, obedience and responsiveness.

The word dressage, as we know it , did not have the same meaning back when the European world's master riders were developing riding in a systematic way that could be taught through both direct experience (in the menage) and by studying of texts. Dressage just mean "practice". I dont' think riding was divided into different types. There was just riding, good riding and bad riding. So, the schools and masters were trying to promote good riding.

So, if you want to say that good riding is the basis of all types of riding, then it is not so strange to say that dressage (in the old meaning of the word) IS the basis of all riding styles today.
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    08-06-2012, 02:24 PM
  #23
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelievable    
dres·sage/drəˈsäZH/

Noun:The art of riding and training a horse in a manner that develops obedience, flexibility, and balance...
Wow! This is dressage!





To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, we already have a word for good riding - good riding. Calling it dressage doesn't extend our vocabulary, but it robs us of a word for this:

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    08-06-2012, 02:33 PM
  #24
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
...So, if you want to say that good riding is the basis of all types of riding, then it is not so strange to say that dressage (in the old meaning of the word) IS the basis of all riding styles today.
Except that it ISN'T.

This is NOT what those masters came up with:



If the guy or horse above was unbalanced, disobedient or lacked responsiveness, the steer wouldn't have been cut from the herd. Instead, they would have crashed and burned.

In the 1800s, the US Cavalry looked at the ideas of collection, and rejected it as having no military value.

The "codified method of teaching balance, obedience and responsiveness" had nothing to do with a Texas cowboy. It has nothing to do with a forward seat. It is A style of riding. Not THE style of riding.

And the guy in the picture above did not value collection. He was not a dressage rider riding dressage. But if he wasn't a good rider, he'd have broken his neck...
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    08-06-2012, 02:33 PM
  #25
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingArabian    
Isnt bareback the foundation of modern riding? Some genius had to go "hey I wanna ride that!" before some other genius made a chair for it.
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Kind of hard not to agree with this!
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    08-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #26
Weanling
Good point, Tinyliny.

I think some are getting overly sensitive on semantics. I have no idea what the first form of riding was, but I *think* that english riding came before western, so perhaps the OP meant it in that way. I would say that one CAN benefit from dressage just as one can benefit from cross-training with ANY of the disciplines, especially if you work with someone who is specialized.

I'm sure that the OP was not trying to offend but wanted to ask a question and get a conversation going.

OP - they are different and they are similar too. Obedience and balance are probably two of the main common goals. As for collection, it takes years of practice to achieve consistently and is quite difficult for both the horse and rider. I can not really compare the level of difficulty of the two as I have only seriously pursued english riding.
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    08-06-2012, 02:41 PM
  #27
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta1981    
I don't know a whole lot about reining (other than it looks like a lot of fun). Do you get tested on leg yields, shoulder-in, or haunches-in? Would you get more points in your pattern if you use them?
Not as such, no. Reining is judged on your performance of a given pattern. Each pattern is a combination of the following maneuvers in a given sequence (depending upon the pattern) performed in both directions.
Fast circles
Slow circles
Lead changes
Roll backs
Spins
And then of course, the sliding stop and a back up.

In order to perform each manuever best, you need to know how to use the yields, etc. THey become your "tools" in order to perform the maneuver. You are then scored on each component from+ or- 2 for each from a baseline of 70 points per judge.
Correct me if I am wrong NRHA-you have much more experience than I here........
So, in short, yes, if you use them, you will most likely get more points, as your horse will probably do the maneuver better.
     
    08-06-2012, 02:46 PM
  #28
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by franknbeans    
So, in short, yes, if you use them, you will most likely get more points, as your horse will probably do the maneuver better.
Makes sense!
     
    08-06-2012, 02:53 PM
  #29
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
Like I said, just because the horse goes sideways does not make it dressage. Does the horse have cadence YES, connection well it would depend on what you mean by connection? Is the horse on the bit? At the beginning yes, reach YES I do not want a short choppy strid. Does not give me what I am looking for , impulsion movement from behind and driving forward?? What to make sure we are calling the same thing, rhythm YES and contact Again contact when it is being taught then not so much once the horse understands what I am asking with my leg and seat during the sideways?? You can go sideways all you want and it's not dressage until you are riding dressage. A dressage test is not about the movements, it's about preparation, quality of gaits and correct, collected execution.

Yes and how do you get there? By training different maneuvers. You use these maneuvers to perform Dressage. I take the same concepts and incorperate then in to what I do. I do leg yeilds half passes and such and by getting the horse to do these things do not make my horse a dressage horse but what it gives me is a better turn a better rollback and better circles. I still need quality of gait and collection and at times extention preparation is a given no matter what discipline you are doing. It is how you get there.

Good riding is good riding, but incorporating principles from another discipline is rarely a good idea (as franknbeans has said). Working with a good trainer within your discipline is however a good idea. I would never take my FEI level dressage horse to a reining clinic just like franknbeans would never dream of riding her high level reiners with my dressage coach. Have and still do and am planing on taking a few Dressage clinics over the winter. You should try it. You would be surprised at what is interchangable. They are two separate, different disciplines although both riders are balanced, supple and working with the horse. This is true but there are many ways to get there. I choice to use what I have learned from my reining trainers and clinics and what I have learned from dressage trainers and clinics to get the end results. The movements may look similar as well but that does not mean the mechanics, traditions or training are compatible within one horse. Yes we could switch horses but we would be like fish out of water because the aids are different, This has nothing to do with the differance between reining and dressage it has to do with how the horse was trained. I have several reining horses that have been trained by different reining trainers and they have different cues for the same maneuver. The training is different and the two disciplines are not compatible on a high level.

Yes and no. While yes there there is a big difference at a high level of what you are asking of the horse. There are many things at a high level of Dressage I would not want or need to tach my horse. Same with reining. However the journey to get there can and does cross over very well. It is not about the end product it is a bout the journy.
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    08-06-2012, 02:56 PM
  #30
Green Broke
Pet peeve: use of the literal meaning of the word dressage to refer to all types of training. Yes it does mean training, but when someone says Dressage they don't mean "training.". They mean Dressage as in the riding discipline with the white gloves and top hats. It's dressage vs Dressage. A leg yield in Dressage is the sideways+forward of the movement PLUS the impulsion, cadence, etc that Dressage trains for. Same with all the other movements.

(PS I identify as an Arabian Equitation rider)
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