Dressage VS. Western Pleasure - Page 5
   

       The Horse Forum > Riding Horses > Western Riding > Western Pleasure

Dressage VS. Western Pleasure

This is a discussion on Dressage VS. Western Pleasure within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • What are the dressage signals you gibe a horse
  • Training aids for western riding vs. dressage

Like Tree263Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    08-06-2012, 04:10 PM
  #41
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by franknbeans    
We all work to refine what our horses do in some way, shape or form. Simply walking can even be refined for heavens sake, if we want to.

I don't know why you are insisting in putting all these words in my mouth. No I don't think that people that don't do dressage are idiots, we just train differently and I understand that how I train my horse is different than how you train yours. No I don't train to improve maneuvers. I train to improve my horse. The end result of that is that the maneuvers are of higher quality because the HORSE is stronger, the HORSE is more on my aids and supple and collected and connected and has more cadence and impulsion etc...
I don't train cues, I train my horse. He has 4 buttons - go, stop, left and right and that seriously is it. Knowing how to apply and refine those aids is what I do in my training. And yes, I do refine the walk, for 20 minutes every day.

I don't know why you think I am putting down other disciplines?? I'm not. I'm simply correcting what some people think is dressage or dressage training. I have great respect for people who train their horses in reining and am able to understand that fundamentally the training is very different. Which does not make it wrong at all, just different. You think it's weird that I don't train cues - that doesn't make it wrong - just different. NRHA thinks I ride around doing maneuvers every day, which I don't - and that doesn't make it wrong either, just different. Knowing how to do a half pass doesn't mean you're doing dressage training. It may well improve your horse's way of going but it doesn't mean you're "doing dressage" just like I can do a rollback and I'll still be way off from doing any semblance of reining.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    08-06-2012, 04:13 PM
  #42
Foal
Y'all missed the point

The "ART" of...means no one person is right. Riding is an "ART" form.

You cannot tell someone how to paint or sculpt and even the greatest "ARTists" were misunderstood and even "put down" by others.

The only "person" who will tell you what is right, is the HORSE.

Is your horse a happy and willing partner? Are you a happy and willing partner then you are creating ART. Call it whatever you want, dressage, reining, WP, etc.

One last thing I suggest, and I will not respond to any negative remarks, but go watch the film "Buck". Then fix yourselves, I am fixing me, so that I can have a happy and willing partner in the horse.
     
    08-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  #43
Trained
I am of the mind that no time spent in the sadle is a wast of time. Lets see who said that.. LOL

Anything you do with your horses regardless of discipline is good as long as it is done correctly and with purpose but even like has been stated just walking can improve what you are doing.

Ex. Last night. Well not last night the night before I think it was. I worked my horse for about 45 min. I NEVER left the walk. I spent about 10 min just working on the cue to get my horse to relaxe on cue. To me this is a very importent thing. Why? It will never be a maneuver. It will never in and of itself be judged or given a score. So why do I spend so much time with this cue? B/C when I walk into the area if for some reason my horse gets nerviose or actious I have a cue to remind them to relaxe. It is like your coach telling you to breath.
     
    08-06-2012, 04:30 PM
  #44
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
I don't know why you are insisting in putting all these words in my mouth. No I don't think that people that don't do dressage are idiots, we just train differently and I understand that how I train my horse is different than how you train yours. No I don't train to improve maneuvers. I train to improve my horse. The end result of that is that the maneuvers are of higher quality because the HORSE is stronger, the HORSE is more on my aids and supple and collected and connected and has more cadence and impulsion etc...
I don't train cues, I train my horse. He has 4 buttons - go, stop, left and right and that seriously is it. Knowing how to apply and refine those aids is what I do in my training. And yes, I do refine the walk, for 20 minutes every day.

I don't know why you think I am putting down other disciplines?? I'm not. I'm simply correcting what some people think is dressage or dressage training. I have great respect for people who train their horses in reining and am able to understand that fundamentally the training is very different. Which does not make it wrong at all, just different. You think it's weird that I don't train cues - that doesn't make it wrong - just different. NRHA thinks I ride around doing maneuvers every day, which I don't - and that doesn't make it wrong either, just different. Knowing how to do a half pass doesn't mean you're doing dressage training. It may well improve your horse's way of going but it doesn't mean you're "doing dressage" just like I can do a rollback and I'll still be way off from doing any semblance of reining.
I am not reading any discipline bashing or snark in your posts, Anebel. I'm not sure where people are getting that. The simple fact of the matter is that dressage riders are not out there practicing "maneuvers" for the sake of adding another confirmed movement to the list (or at least they shouldn't be, though I suspect it happens rather often). For example, I use shoulder-in not because there are tests that call for it, but because it's a good tool for addressing my mare's straightness issues. Whether reiners or riders in any other disciplines are out there schooling maneuvers for the sake of learning how to do those specific maneuvers for the show ring, I have no idea, since I am not involved in those disciplines.
     
    08-06-2012, 04:32 PM
  #45
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
I don't know why you are insisting in putting all these words in my mouth. No I don't think that people that don't do dressage are idiots, we just train differently and I understand that how I train my horse is different than how you train yours. No I don't train to improve maneuvers.

Sure you do. Is a half pass not a maneuver with in a dressage test? If it is then it is a maneuver. Just like a Spin is a maneuver with in reining. Does not mean I train a spin. While you may not go out and do half passes everyday with the intent on improving that maneuver you are still working to improve that maneuver. I use the leg yeild and half pass to improve my turns. You may use something different with in training the half pass to improve that maneuver. While you are not actually working on that maneuver you are training your horse to be more responsive to improve that maneuver.

I train to improve my horse. The end result of that is that the maneuvers are of higher quality because the HORSE is stronger, the HORSE is more on my aids and supple and collected and connected and has more cadence and impulsion etc...

Yes and that is the same thing we do. The differance is that while you may not use the leg yeild or half pass as a training tool we might. Well I do. I use them to improve my horses ability to move different parts of its body. I need to have my horses body in a certain position to get the best maneuver I can get. That may take working a lot of different parts of my horses body independently from anouther part of its body. So what I may call a maneuver in dressage like a leg yeild or half pass I use those training tools to get the control I need. Build the stringth I need. You may do other things as tools to improve those maneuvers. If so I would LOVE to know what you do and how as it could be something I may incorperate into what I do. I have found that there are a lot of things that once you brake them down to their basic parts can be used for just about anything.


I don't train cues, I train my horse. He has 4 buttons - go, stop, left and right and that seriously is it. Knowing how to apply and refine those aids is what I do in my training. And yes, I do refine the walk, for 20 minutes every day.

They are still cues. You may just use them in different combination to get the horse to do what you want. Keep in mind that a finished reiner is missing one of thing that a Dressage horse still has and that is the reins. Yes they are still there yes they do get used at times but the vast majority of the time they are very loose and drapped. So I need other cues to get my horse doing what I want.

I don't know why you think I am putting down other disciplines?? I'm not. I'm simply correcting what some people think is dressage or dressage training. I have great respect for people who train their horses in reining and am able to understand that fundamentally the training is very different.

No they are not. Both horses have to move forward they have to move their bodies and so on. Does not matter if it is a dressage horse or a reiner. They still have 4 legs and have to move. Now there maybe different cues and they may move a bit differently (more a breed things from what I have seen) However training is training is training.

Which does not make it wrong at all, just different. You think it's weird that I don't train cues - that doesn't make it wrong - just different. NRHA thinks I ride around doing maneuvers every day, which I don't - and that doesn't make it wrong either, just different. Knowing how to do a half pass doesn't mean you're doing dressage training. It may well improve your horse's way of going but it doesn't mean you're "doing dressage" just like I can do a rollback and I'll still be way off from doing any semblance of reining.
I did not say I was doing Dressage I said I was using dressage maneuvers/Tools to get an end results that I need for what I do.
franknbeans, Ink and natisha like this.
     
    08-06-2012, 04:38 PM
  #46
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftXDressage    
For example, I use shoulder-in not because there are tests that call for it, but because it's a good tool for addressing my mare's straightness issues. Whether reiners or riders in any other disciplines are out there schooling maneuvers for the sake of learning how to do those specific maneuvers for the show ring, I have no idea, since I am not involved in those disciplines.
And you think that a reiner can not use that same maneuver to accomplish the same thing? That is my point. I do not school turns. Yes I do practice them to I can see what I need to work on and fix but I do not school them. That fixes nothing. What I do is I will go out ask my horse to turn/spin. I then feel what is going wrong. If you can not feel it then a video is a great tool. I then brake the turn down into parts and work on fixing those parts. If I am having trouble getting my horses shoulder to move properly then I will work on different thing like leg yeilds and half passes to improve the shoulders. If my horses hip is flinging out then I will work on the side pass and moving their hips with little resistance. I will also work on them driving forward if I am having problems with the hips. So what I am doing is asking for the maneuver it if is good correct with good cadence and speed I will move on. If not then I will determin what is wrong and then plan a way to fix it and work that plan.
franknbeans and natisha like this.
     
    08-06-2012, 04:40 PM
  #47
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
I don't know why you are insisting in putting all these words in my mouth. I am not putting any words in your mouth. For some reason you seem to think you are the only one who "refines" anything. I was simply pointing out that every day, on every horse we are refining something. It may be totally unintended. No I don't think that people that don't do dressage are idiots, we just train differently and I understand that how I train my horse is different than how you train yours. No I don't train to improve maneuvers. I train to improve my horse. The end result of that is that the maneuvers are of higher quality because the HORSE is stronger, the HORSE is more on my aids and supple and collected and connected and has more cadence and impulsion etc...DO you really think that basic premise is special to dressage? Don't we ALL work to improve the HORSE ultimately?
I don't train cues, I train my horse. He has 4 buttons - go, stop, left and right and that seriously is it. Knowing how to apply and refine those aids is what I do in my training. And yes, I do refine the walk, for 20 minutes every day. So, if you don't "train cues", don't have something you do with your legs, hands, seat that tells your horse which lead you want at the canter? What to you call that? I would call that a cue. If you use simple "go" you will get a walk,etc, nor will your left, right, stop work any better. You may choose to not CALL it cues. But, you have specific signals you give your horse other than simple stop, go, left and right, like you say. Shoot-even asking go, stop, left and right have signals, which I would call cues....what do you call them?

I don't know why you think I am putting down other disciplines?? I'm not. I'm simply correcting what some people think is dressage or dressage training. I have great respect for people who train their horses in reining and am able to understand that fundamentally the training is very different. Which does not make it wrong at all, just different. You think it's weird that I don't train cues - that doesn't make it wrong - just different. NRHA thinks I ride around doing maneuvers every day, which I don't - and that doesn't make it wrong either, just different. Knowing how to do a half pass doesn't mean you're doing dressage training. It may well improve your horse's way of going but it doesn't mean you're "doing dressage" just like I can do a rollback and I'll still be way off from doing any semblance of reining.
I doubt the NRHA thinks you are doing anything. Reiners don't ride around ding maneuvers all the time either, and you should know that. I am well aware it is different. I cherish that.
nrhareiner likes this.
     
    08-06-2012, 04:46 PM
  #48
Trained
Ok this is the last time I'm going to say this. I do not train, in my Dressage training, to improve maneuvers. Ever. Period. Done. I do not train cues. I am simply systematically strengthening and improving the horse as a whole. My focus is on refinement and improving the whole horse. That is dressage. Yes, when I show up to a competition and am required to do a test, I will perform maneuvers, but this does not form the basis or goal of my training. Period. Done.

Thank you DxD.

ETA fnb I still have not made a statement on how I think reiners train or do not train or what I think they do. I don't know why you are still reading that into my posts.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    08-06-2012, 04:46 PM
  #49
Foal
Don't know much about dressage, other than you have "contact" and "collection" at most if not all times...don't know if those terms are correct or not...i have just observed the dressage runs and see a tight rein and a collected-looking horse....so, don't get mad at me if that isn't the case..my main point here is that I don't really know squat about dressage, but do about western.

I do know for western/cowboy type stuff you have to ride one-handed on a loose rein using your legs for cues(and also trusting you horse to do his/her part when necessary)...opening and closing a gate is an example...you don't move the horse with the reins, you use your legs because your right(or left) hand is opening and closing the gate...

I do know that I collect or gather my horse prior to calling for the cow on a roping run...that way the horse is set up "athletically" - new word, I know, - to leave the box and chase the cow...however, once we are moving my horse is on a loose rein running/loping/cantering at full speed until it gets to the cow...I will then use seat/legs/rein cues to either speed up/slow down/move left or right/set his hindquarters to slow the cow and set up for the turn left...etc....but the key is the ability to do all of this with only the left hand on the reins(it is also holding a rope) because the other end of the rope is in the right hand trying to throw the loop and hit a moving target...to get to this point I do shoulders in/out, hips in/out, spins, different speeds at the trot/lope/run, side passes, quarter passes, circles with nose in and out...and a whole bunch of other stuff

Whether these are things used to train dressage horses, I don't know....but, I am sure that we all use elements of each other's disciplines in our training/riding.
     
    08-06-2012, 04:47 PM
  #50
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
And you think that a reiner can not use that same maneuver to accomplish the same thing? That is my point. I do not school turns. Yes I do practice them to I can see what I need to work on and fix but I do not school them. That fixes nothing. What I do is I will go out ask my horse to turn/spin. I then feel what is going wrong. If you can not feel it then a video is a great tool. I then brake the turn down into parts and work on fixing those parts. If I am having trouble getting my horses shoulder to move properly then I will work on different thing like leg yeilds and half passes to improve the shoulders. If my horses hip is flinging out then I will work on the side pass and moving their hips with little resistance. I will also work on them driving forward if I am having problems with the hips. So what I am doing is asking for the maneuver it if is good correct with good cadence and speed I will move on. If not then I will determin what is wrong and then plan a way to fix it and work that plan.
Again, you're reading things into posts that simply aren't there. I am talking about what I, personally, do when I'm riding/training a dressage horse. I think, if you will actually read what I wrote, I specifically noted that I was not saying whether different disciplines do it the same way or differently, because I have no experience with those disciplines. I was merely addressing the notion that dressage is about schooling maneuvers/movements/whatever you prefer to call them. It isn't that. At all. And if I were to say that reining is all about schooling spins and sliding stops, I would expect someone to correct me and wouldn't assume that they were somehow implying that their discipline was better than mine in the process.
     

Tags
dressages, horses, pleasure, western

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Halter, Western Pleasure, Western Horsemanship kaykat31 Horse Showmanship 6 09-01-2011 04:54 PM
Western Pleasure Bit help? horseluver50 Horse Tack and Equipment 10 08-07-2010 03:19 PM
Western Pleasure girl_on_black_pony Western Riding 0 08-09-2008 05:48 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0