How Disgusting. - Page 11 - The Horse Forum
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post #101 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopin N Paint View Post
These comments coming from the person who admitted it takes them an average of 20 minutes to load a horse and eventually (2.75 hours later) only got it to get in with grain.
Yes, I really am really going to take horse training and health advice from you.

Do people really have nothing better to do then make Western Pleasure bashing threads? I joined this forum thinking I might be able to learn and exchange ideas, but its obvious now that anyone with any REAL knowledge on the subject dare not post because of course the entire discipline is evil and abusive.
Loading a young horse doesn't have anything to do with my opinion on this thread. Posts like this is what gives western horseman a bad reputation. You by all means do not need to heed any of my advice.
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post #102 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ82Sky View Post
(snipped for space)
... a single jointed smoothed mouth snaffle bit in heavy hands can be more severe than a high ported curb bit in light hands, and if i've learned anything in my 30+ years with horses, it is to not judge that which i do not know or understand.
Ayup, I have to agree there. A long time ago I had a Lipizzaner mare who had the most small and delicate muzzle she couldn't pack anything but the thinnest snaffle bit comfortably. Once I was in a tack shop with my trainer and I bought her a new bit, 4" snaffle wafer thin and the gal behind the counter said "Oh my gosh is that a severe bit!" - I was taken aback but my dressage trainer (an old school gentleman) said without missing a beat "Only in unfeeling unschooled and uncouth hands my dear."
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post #103 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque View Post
Loading a young horse doesn't have anything to do with my opinion on this thread. Posts like this is what gives western horseman a bad reputation. You by all means do not need to heed any of my advice.
And so I will not take your advice.

Whenever I am thinking of learning something I take a step back and examine who the teacher is.

Horses do not lather in sweat just because they are in pain or stressed or being abused. That is just wrong. Sometimes they are just hot or out of shape or working hard or in the process of learning something.
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post #104 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopin N Paint View Post
These comments coming from the person who admitted it takes them an average of 20 minutes to load a horse and eventually (2.75 hours later) only got it to get in with grain.
Yes, I really am really going to take horse training and health advice from you.

Do people really have nothing better to do then make Western Pleasure bashing threads? I joined this forum thinking I might be able to learn and exchange ideas, but its obvious now that anyone with any REAL knowledge on the subject dare not post because of course the entire discipline is evil and abusive.
First of all, welcome to the forum and I'm sorry you've ventured into a debate like this being so new.. There are a good bit of fantastic people here who have awesome ideas and advice.. However, there are also a few debates every now and then.. I hope you stick around and get too know the good people on the forum..

I am Sparkly Meanie Doodie Head and I approve this message!
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post #105 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DrumRunner View Post
First of all, welcome to the forum and I'm sorry you've ventured into a debate like this being so new.. There are a good bit of fantastic people here who have awesome ideas and advice.. However, there are also a few debates every now and then.. I hope you stick around and get too know the good people on the forum..
I'll stick around and read, just remind me not to post any questions, photos, or videos of my pleasure horse.
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post #106 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:04 PM
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I too have seen trainers and riders yank away and demand that ultra slow canter that winds up as a 4 beat. This is usually during the lunch break. To me this is no different than TWH soring. I am greatly amused when these horses suddenly blow up and can no longer perform. I'm also delighted when I hear that these horses have been withdrawn from the class. I've always suspected the discipline would have gotten much harsher had they not been in front of a crowd.
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post #107 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lopin N Paint View Post
And so I will not take your advice.

Whenever I am thinking of learning something I take a step back and examine who the teacher is.

Horses do not lather in sweat just because they are in pain or stressed or being abused. That is just wrong. Sometimes they are just hot or out of shape or working hard or in the process of learning something.
Bingo and that is stressful and painful for them. If you do a little research you may learn something about it. I didn't make it up I learned it from a vet and online sources.
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post #108 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DrumRunner View Post
First of all, welcome to the forum and I'm sorry you've ventured into a debate like this being so new.. There are a good bit of fantastic people here who have awesome ideas and advice.. However, there are also a few debates every now and then.. I hope you stick around and get too know the good people on the forum..
Everyone has a different opinion of what makes a good person also.
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post #109 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:07 PM
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@DimSum - i have a tb who HATES any bit with more than one joint, and prefers something closer to a mullen mouth even with a low port. for him a mullen or low port pelham is far nicer than a french link. it's certainly not the normal, but if anyone doesn't believe me, they're welcome to put in a french link and watch him rear himself over...

as for the OP here, i'm not a fan of shows where the unbalanced on-the-fore QHs are placed over the slow, balanced WP QHs. there is a difference. however to the untrained eye, it's hard to see the difference between the correct "long and low" and the incorrect on-the-fore shuffle. since i don't have much experience WP, i know i prefer the former to the latter, however i make no claims that i could train either, or judge a class on either, so as for training methods, as long as the horse isn't in pain, who am i to say?

i do have experience in dressage, and completely understand the difference between some overflexing for suppling v. rollokur and the difference in what the horse feels and how it impacts their movement long and short term. regrettably, the latter often produces immediate results that drive winnings in the show ring. however, this is by no means unique to dressage - trainers and owners and riders and competitors taking short cuts to see results faster has been happing across disciplines, riding styles, and competition types for centuries. anyone who thinks ALL of any one discipline is either good OR bad is sadly mistaken. i know quite a few very properly trained, cared for and handled TBs, and just as many poorly cared for ones...doesn't mean racing is awful - i'm actually a huge TB racing fan. but that also doesn't mean that i like or condone the trainers that milkshake their horses or drug them or fill them up with steroids to drive results.

there IS a difference.
as horsepeople - and as people in general - we need to learn to educate ourselves on the individual and the ideal, and stop making generalizations based on a few observations.
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post #110 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:10 PM
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i'd also like to add that a nicely trained, balanced, properly muscled WP horse that can move at the slow gaits as requested in showing while not falling on the forehand and moving properly is very very hard to achieve, incredibly lovely to ride, and quite different than the horses that are yanked on and tugged and taught to lean and balance on the fore. while not a personal WP fan, i can absolutely appreciate the WP horses i have known that are properly trained as quite incredible. it takes far more muscle coordination and balance and control to go slowly correctly than it does to either shuffle OR go fast!
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