How Disgusting. - Page 12 - The Horse Forum

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post #111 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by churumbeque View Post
Bingo and that is stressful and painful for them. If you do a little research you may learn something about it. I didn't make it up I learned it from a vet and online sources.
So your horses never sweat and lather in the summer while you ride them?

OR your saying I should not ride my horse when it is over 80 degrees out because it hurts him/her?

OR because my horse was allowed to lope on his forehand for the past three years, I should let him continue to do it incorrectly because when I ask him to move out and get some speed to help balance him and learn to lope correct he sweats and lathers a little..but that clearly hurts him and stresses him out?
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post #112 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:28 PM
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Bringing a horse to a high level of fitness takes a long time because you should always start a horse out going easy and increase the time and demands as they will let you know when it is ok to step up the demands. Patience will play a very large part in this process. Pushing too hard, too fast is asking for trouble with muscle soreness and inevitable joint issues. If your horse starts to lather down, this is a big red flag. Either you are pushing your horse too hard or they are experiencing pain. There should never be lather on your horse; a good strong sweat but not lather. Have a training schedule in mind and try to stick to it and remember that you cannot get a horse fit by riding them once or twice a week for ten or fifteen minutes. You must have a safe and consistent plan, riding every day or at least five or six days a week. So my suggestion is to be kind but be stern and before you know it, you will have a fit horse that will enjoy their job and look like a picture of health. This is taken from this website. Determining the Fitness Level of Your Horse by Appearance & Touch, and Recognizing Sweat Patterns.

PREPARATION AND CONDITIONING
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post #113 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:32 PM
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bahahahahaha this really is a train wreck thread :( im enjoying the sidelines on this one

Since we are constantly off topic why don't we just disassemble and move on to a different debate elsewhere since this thread keeps getting jacked in multiple directions lol
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post #114 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque View Post
Bringing a horse to a high level of fitness takes a long time because you should always start a horse out going easy and increase the time and demands as they will let you know when it is ok to step up the demands. Patience will play a very large part in this process. Pushing too hard, too fast is asking for trouble with muscle soreness and inevitable joint issues. If your horse starts to lather down, this is a big red flag. Either you are pushing your horse too hard or they are experiencing pain. There should never be lather on your horse; a good strong sweat but not lather. Have a training schedule in mind and try to stick to it and remember that you cannot get a horse fit by riding them once or twice a week for ten or fifteen minutes. You must have a safe and consistent plan, riding every day or at least five or six days a week. So my suggestion is to be kind but be stern and before you know it, you will have a fit horse that will enjoy their job and look like a picture of health. This is taken from this website. Determining the Fitness Level of Your Horse by Appearance & Touch, and Recognizing Sweat Patterns.

PREPARATION AND CONDITIONING
my one TB is a highly competitive field hunter. He lathers in nearly all weather, and sweats profusely. Always has. He's also regularly seen by a vet (who btw is also our hunt teammate) as well as chiro, and he's more fit now than he has ever been in his life, at 14 years old and topping the scales around 1400+ pounds. Pretty muscled for a 16.2h TB....

He lathers every ride that is 30 min+. Always.

Lather is not necessarily an indication of fitness or conditioning, but can be tied to genetics. Some animals sweat more than others, some don't sweat at all. Some sweat easily. My horse is like me - we can hunt in 55 degree weather and by the end of the course nearly 2h later we're both lathered. But the next day neither of us is lame or injured.

In addition, in peak hunt season, my horse is ridden only once - twice per week - either one - two days before the hunt and the day of. He gets all day turnout and exercises himself in TO and maintains fitness. Similar to racehorses that get galloped just once a week and a month off between races. To GET to peak fitness he's in work 3-4d/week starting in 20-30 min increments, building up to 2h - 3h on trails at varying mpm speeds (meter per minute).

Conditioning a horse is as individual as that horse. My clyde cross turns to mush if you don't work him 3d a week and he'll never be able to hunt at the pace and speed of my TB. They are very different animals.

My point is: lathering is absolutely NOT indicative of conditioning level. Heart rate, resp rate, and return to resting rates are. Just ask any endurance racer. To GET to peak conditioning, the methodology will also vary by horse. What will not vary is being able to judge how to push a horse into their fatigue zone (tired but still uninjured) which builds fitness and NOT into their failure zone (risk of injury and undue stress).
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post #115 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by churumbeque View Post
Bringing a horse to a high level of fitness takes a long time because you should always start a horse out going easy and increase the time and demands as they will let you know when it is ok to step up the demands. Patience will play a very large part in this process. Pushing too hard, too fast is asking for trouble with muscle soreness and inevitable joint issues. If your horse starts to lather down, this is a big red flag. Either you are pushing your horse too hard or they are experiencing pain. There should never be lather on your horse; a good strong sweat but not lather. Have a training schedule in mind and try to stick to it and remember that you cannot get a horse fit by riding them once or twice a week for ten or fifteen minutes. You must have a safe and consistent plan, riding every day or at least five or six days a week. So my suggestion is to be kind but be stern and before you know it, you will have a fit horse that will enjoy their job and look like a picture of health. This is taken from this website. Determining the Fitness Level of Your Horse by Appearance & Touch, and Recognizing Sweat Patterns.

PREPARATION AND CONDITIONING
Bev's Horse ADVICE (<- not facts)

So this woman trains Thoroughbreds and does massage therapy...
Not going to take her opinion either. Sorry.

But hey, at least you can copy and paste!

However, this woman appears to make a great product for Track horses that bleed, and horses with ulcers, oh and a product to stimulate a horses appetite, and joint relief, oh and 'Leg Sweat' for "inflammation due to stress, bruises or cuts to ankles, tendons, shins or knees".

But, hey, don't push that horse to far too fast!

Last edited by Lopin N Paint; 06-01-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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post #116 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:45 PM
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i'm sorry am I missing something? What's wrong with TBs and massage therapy?????

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post #117 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kait18 View Post
bahahahahaha this really is a train wreck thread :( im enjoying the sidelines on this one

Since we are constantly off topic why don't we just disassemble and move on to a different debate elsewhere since this thread keeps getting jacked in multiple directions lol
I'd rather talk about sweating to much than how evil and cruel and abusive western pleasure is.
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post #118 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 05:47 PM
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i'm sorry am I missing something? What's wrong with TBs and massage therapy?????
Nothings wrong with it, but the woman is not a vet. And her website is about her opinions... not scientific facts. Which is fine, people are free to believe what they want... but I'd rather have the facts,
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post #119 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lopin N Paint View Post
I'd rather talk about sweating to much than how evil and cruel and abusive western pleasure is.

LOL The good 'ole western pleasure debate seems to pop up every once in a while. We had a rather lively discussion on the topic a few months ago.

This one is getting a bit more personal than I'd like to see though. Chill people! Take a deep breath, count to ten, then kiss and make up
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post #120 of 213 Old 06-01-2012, 07:06 PM
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How do you know they were trainers? Did they have a sign tacked to them that said "I'm a trainer riding a clients horse"? At the AQHA shows that I go to, I sometimes have a hard time telling who is a trainer and who isn't.

Also, many times a person will try to mimic what they've seen a trainer do. The trainer may use a method that when done correctly, works very well.

As for your comment about the bits, regarding the harsh bits... A bit is only as harsh as the hands that are holding the reins. A well trained horse will sometimes be shown in a very harsh bit because it takes the most minute touch to respond. A well trained horse in the QH world will ride almost completely by the seat and leg rather than the bit. Even the english horses will.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious or irritable when I say this, but I think you went to a show and saw something that you didn't understand and may even be exaggerating a bit but that's just my though.

Also, not to down any color association but in my experience the buckskin and palomino shows are generally fairly small unless they make them open shows since they are color based.

As for the comment I saw on the paints, Those shows can actually be rather huge and they have some pretty fine trainers that I've seen.....

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