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This is a discussion on The Lope within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Should reiners have low head sets
  • Reiner's lope

 
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    04-24-2010, 08:25 AM
  #111
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorelhorse    
its fine:) we all have our own opinions. And I know he's not perfect:)
No one horse is ahha Only people who can afford to pay hundreds of thousands maybe, and even then I'm not convince they are perfect ahha.
     
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    04-24-2010, 10:53 AM
  #112
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
Hey, IlllComeALopin, I have an honest question. Are you saying that your 16 hand horse moves slower than a 14 hand horse? Is that typical in the show ring?

I would have thought that the taller the horse, the longer the stride, the more ground it would cover with ease. In other words, I would think that a 16 hand horse would move faster and cover more ground than a 14 hand horse? Maybe not as cat-like and quick, but I don't see why he would be slower?

I guess I am confused on this point and I have a 14.2 hand mustang who never can keep up with taller horses. Of course, just about everyone I ride with has a taller horse than him, and some of them are gaited, but still, he just doesn't seem to have the stride? Of course this is at the walk mainly. His trot and lope can keep up with most everyone. :)
I will guarantee that my little 14'2hh reiner will move faster even at a slow lope then a 16'2 WP horse who is bred and built to be a WP horse. A WP horse who is built to be a WP horse has a slower flat kneed movement where my little reiner who is built and bred to be a reiner has a more forward moving driving gate and more knee action. It is more how they move then anything. This comes down to breeding and conformation. WP horses are bred to be slow flat kneed where Reiners are bred to move out and to drive under themselves and sit when they stop.

When you say that putting sliders on a reiner is un natural this is not really true. What you are doing is adding a piece of equipment that enhances something they do naturally and making it so they are safe and will not get hurt. Just like putting leg gear on a horse to help protect their legs. Putting sliders on a horse does not make they stop and slide. These horses do it naturally.
     
    04-24-2010, 11:40 AM
  #113
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by IllComeALopin    
But you think putting sliders on the back and doing those long drawn out slides and spins is not harmful at all? Horses were not built to do that either, that is very unatrual to me.

And no, I was not refering to you in the least.
I have never once had ANY of my reining horses pull lame. I have ancient, retired reiners now serving as beautiful lesson horses to my trainer for kids with no confidence. I may not own them anymore but I'm very proud of them.


And as for the sliders, that helps them do the reining movements, and reiners are actually built to do those moves. So long as they are conformationally correct, no problem. I've enver had to put a reiner down because their head was too low and they got spine problems. -.-
     
    04-24-2010, 01:19 PM
  #114
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
I've enver had to put a reiner down because their head was too low and they got spine problems. -.-
I do want to say that this is not ALL WP horses, not even the majority WP horses. It's the horses who have been forced to carry themselves in way that is not built for them. It'd be like making a reiner who aren't built to have a lower head and neck put their head low.
     
    04-24-2010, 01:33 PM
  #115
Trained
Alright, I'll agree with you there StylishK. I suppose I'm a little freaked since that last filly.

But like I said, I'm not showing to lose in this economy when I can hardly afford to get gas for work with all the other entry fees. And I don't love showing WP enough to drop another event to pay for it. So until it changes, count me out.
     
    04-24-2010, 01:38 PM
  #116
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
Alright, I'll agree with you there StylishK. I suppose I'm a little freaked since that last filly.

But like I said, I'm not showing to lose in this economy when I can hardly afford to get gas for work with all the other entry fees. And I don't love showing WP enough to drop another event to pay for it. So until it changes, count me out.
I definitely understand that. That's why I gave up pleasure for reining, I can't do both. However I'm lucky and my mom is more interested in Pleasure so we have a WP horse again.

There are definitely trainers who mess WP horses up, probably more than reiners even (not that there aren't some who mess up reiners either), I'm lucky to have a trainer who really listens to the horse and makes good calls on whether or not to push them.

Most of his 2YOs don't actually get shown, some at one horse, our yearling assuming he breaks out like we expect will get shown at some of the bigger shows, but ONLY if he's mentally ready. The minute he shows signs of not being ready to handle it, out to the field he'll go. But not all trainers make that call or even know when to make that call.

I definitely understand where WP negative rep comes from...and honestly that part of WP I don't like either. It's the good side of it that I love. (not as much as reining though )
     
    04-24-2010, 01:49 PM
  #117
Trained
The big difference I see between reining and WP is that in WP to win your horse must move in a certain way and have a low head set. Getting better but that is still the norm.

With reiners it really makes no difference. You see high headed stoppers winning just as much as low headed stoppers. Same with the way they lope. Some lope with a high head set some with lower head sets. Some move faster then others. There is no one type that wins and the other looses. It is all about who has the best broke horse and which horse looks like it is doing the maneuvers the best and most correct according to the rules.
     
    04-24-2010, 01:53 PM
  #118
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
The big difference I see between reining and WP is that in WP to win your horse must move in a certain way and have a low head set. Getting better but that is still the norm.

With reiners it really makes no difference. You see high headed stoppers winning just as much as low headed stoppers. Same with the way they lope. Some lope with a high head set some with lower head sets. Some move faster then others. There is no one type that wins and the other looses. It is all about who has the best broke horse and which horse looks like it is doing the maneuvers the best and most correct according to the rules.
But how else can you judge WP? It's judged on the movement, reining is based on manuvers. I wish somehow pleasure could have a scoring system set up, but even still WP has more space to score based on preferences vs. reining which is about the quality of the manuver. WP judging is very grey and it is improving. Reining is more black and white. The best legged horse is what wins. Now I know they put their head down and go slow. But the horses winning the Congress generally are built and bred to do that and never really suffer from going around that way. I think the biggest issue is actually at the lower level AQHA/Open Shows. It's at these shows where I see most of the issues (ie. Going to slow and to lower without impulsion). When you hit the Congress or the World most of them are going to be pretty decent movers, with a few exceptions of course.
     
    04-24-2010, 02:11 PM
  #119
Trained
You correct reining is based on maneuvers where WP is more subjective on movement. My point is more that with WP it is too much about low heads and going slow then it is about the horse that looks like it would be a pleasure to ride. With reining you can perform the maneuver with a high head or low head. Which ever the horse is more comfortable with. You do not see horses forced into performing in a certain way no matter what.

My stallion has a very very comfortable lope. One you could literally ride all day long. It is neither really really fast or slow. Just a nice moving lope. One that not only covers some ground but does not beat you up. It is the type of lope that a QH should have to go out and check fence all day or look for cattle. It is comfortable covers some ground but no so fast that it tires the horse out so he can not work all day. That to me at least is what a WP horse should be. One that looks like it is a comfortable ride and can go and do a days job. After all that is what a QH is. A working horse.
     
    04-24-2010, 02:18 PM
  #120
Weanling
When I work on pleasure I don't think about going as slow as I can go or putting my horses head as low as it will go. And I know many people who don't. A lot of the time the head falls there naturally from the impulsion you create.

I'm sure many people focus on the head and neck too much, but those are people who lack proper knowledge of pleasure. I don't even worry about the head and neck, it falls where it falls.
     

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