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This is a discussion on The Lope within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Sheza Zippin Asset
  • Bad lope aqha

 
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    04-21-2010, 10:43 PM
  #61
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsarita    
Here's the thing to me. There are a few horses that are the breed ideal for western pleasure. To me, these would be Vital Signs are Good, Sweet Talkin' Jeanie, VS Code Red, One Hot Krymsun, A Certain Vino. The problem comes when people try to make horses that can't physically move that way go that way. That's how you end up with horses that look lame/sore/unhappy.

Sometimes this class is a class all on its own, but even today there are multiple horses that go on from being a top western pleasure horse to being an all-around horse. Vital Signs are Good and Sweet talkin' jeanie have competed very successfully in western riding, horsemanship and trail. And The Krymsun Kruzer placed in the top 10 at the AQHA world show in 2yr old WP, the class that many people seem to think ruins good horses. Last year, this horse went on to be the Superhorse at the World Show, mainly in ENGLISH and OVER FENCE classes. They are true all-around horses that had their basics in highly competitive WP and went on to successful careers in other events.
One Hot Krymsun was bred not far from where I live. The man who bred him (Krymsun Farms) breeds BEAUTIFUL western pleasure horses. I ride English and know basically NOTHING about WP, but my god those horses are beautiful
     
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    04-21-2010, 11:09 PM
  #62
Weanling
I want to show you a video of the yearling we just bought.
This horses is hopefully going to line up for us next year for the NSBA World Championships/Breeders and the AQHA World. (Hopefully, that means as long as he's able to handle it)

This was him barely ever being lunged (less than month of being inside - so that means less time being lunged). This is how he wants to go around, nice and slow. He hasn't been forced to go that way.

Naturally his head will lower when we start riding him. This happens because when you get him using himself and put together he naturally will want to drop his head because that's how he is built and that's whats comfortable for him. (Do you ever notice in dressage when they walk on a long rein the Warmbloods heads generally natural drop down, this is what happens when you have proper impulsion and go on a drape)


I think the real issue lies where people who have horses who physically and mentally can't handle going slow and then they FORCE them to do it. Looks like garbage most of the time too if you ask me. I'd rather see a horse moving on a touch more than my own personal preference but still look clean legged then watch a horse go so slow its unnatural for it. Some horses can handle going really slow, some just aren't built for it.

I think another problem lies within the fact that while sure I ride my horses at 2 (and some may not agree with that). There are too many people pushing their 2YOs TOO hard. It's one thing if the horse comes to it on their own, but not enough trainers recognize when the horse is telling them they just can't handle it mentally and continue to force them through it (this is what causes horses to cripple and break down).


Quote:
Originally Posted by draftrider    
Thank you Stylishk for your very informative and well written response. It does make more sense the way you explained it.
Thank you I'm glad you didn't take it the wrong way (its hard over the internet sometimes to not appear rude ahha) !! WP isn't without its faults I won't deny that either =P
     
    04-22-2010, 07:49 AM
  #63
Banned
Stylish, your baby is cute. And yes he moves nice and slow. But he does not lurch and look lame like others are saying is the way to go.
     
    04-22-2010, 08:57 AM
  #64
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind    
Stylish, your baby is cute. And yes he moves nice and slow. But he does not lurch and look lame like others are saying is the way to go.
Agreed.

No one is saying that western pleasure is without fault.

But if more people would step up to the plate and pick up the pace even if it means loosing, and if the judges would come into twentyfirst century and see that WE ALL WANT CHANGE... then we'd all be better off...

Instead people stop showing western pleasure because they don't like the fake jog and fake lope... You can still show your horse the way you want it to be shown... oh wait but then you might not win... and that's what its all about; isn't it?

I could care less about the ribbons; I'm going to take my halter bred 3 year old to the trainer and hope he does well in halter, western pleasure, hunter under saddle, perhaps some driving...
He has shoes on teh front, just regular everyday shoes, we trail ride daily, and he gets turned out every day weather permitting with other horses.
In the end I will have one awsome, well broke horse, that's happy and I love regardless of any ribbon. To me, that's what matters.

What ever happened to it doesnt matter if you win or loose its how you play the game?
     
    04-22-2010, 10:59 AM
  #65
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaRide    
Let's play a game.....

Here's some extra credit....which ones would you consider NOT a lope?
This is what they call four-beating. Not really a lope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaRide    
#2 - Good Lope or Bad Lope?
YouTube - Rosey and Mom 1.wmv
Although out of shape in this video, the horse is consistent. Maybe not the deepest hock, but it's plenty strong with great cadence. I think this is the best loper in this group of horses. (Also of note...two months prior to this video being taken, this horse won the APHA World Championship in Classic Amateur Western Pleasure.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaRide    
#3 - Good Lope or Bad Lope?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7M2MWOKTSM
Is this an orangatan in a horse costume? I mean really. Yes, this horse is loping with a correct 3-beat gait, but his way of going is a caricature of what a lope should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaRide    
Great canter. Not so sure this horse can lope, though. He's got a nice big stride that will make it hard for him to lope slow & stay correct. He'll be super in the halter ring & in Hunter Under Saddle.

Cute horse, but there's too much speed there for this to be considered a lope. I think he has potential to lope, he just needs to be more broke and/or the rider needs to learn how to help him.
     
    04-22-2010, 12:00 PM
  #66
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by IllComeALopin    
Agreed.

No one is saying that western pleasure is without fault.

But if more people would step up to the plate and pick up the pace even if it means loosing, and if the judges would come into twentyfirst century and see that WE ALL WANT CHANGE... then we'd all be better off...

Instead people stop showing western pleasure because they don't like the fake jog and fake lope... You can still show your horse the way you want it to be shown... oh wait but then you might not win... and that's what its all about; isn't it?

I could care less about the ribbons; I'm going to take my halter bred 3 year old to the trainer and hope he does well in halter, western pleasure, hunter under saddle, perhaps some driving...
He has shoes on teh front, just regular everyday shoes, we trail ride daily, and he gets turned out every day weather permitting with other horses.
In the end I will have one awsome, well broke horse, that's happy and I love regardless of any ribbon. To me, that's what matters.

What ever happened to it doesnt matter if you win or loose its how you play the game?
it doesnt work that way. Why would we spend the money to show and purposely loose?
     
    04-22-2010, 12:12 PM
  #67
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorelhorse    
it doesnt work that way. Why would we spend the money to show and purposely loose?
They did not say anything about purposely loosing.

They said take a well trained horse doing a natural gate that meets the breed description of what the gate is supposed to be (not to be confused with the mutation that is happening now days) and if the judges do not place you know that you did what was right and enjoy it.

To me that DOES sound much better than the win at all costs theories.

But then, you thought that freaky moving horse #3 was wonderful so.... I guess I know where you stand on the win at all costs thing.
     
    04-22-2010, 12:35 PM
  #68
Super Moderator
Maybe you should all go become accredited judges so that together you can save the worlds breed associations! :)
     
    04-22-2010, 02:44 PM
  #69
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84    
Maybe you should all go become accredited judges so that together you can save the worlds breed associations! :)
Amen!! My husband and I arrived at the same conclusion last year after watching a judge schmooze with exhibitors one day (even to the point of riding their horses) and then go on to place his "friends" first and second in every class the next day. This was at our California State Championships. I was appalled and came to the conclusion that some organizations will give a judge's card to anyone. And, no, this guy was not carded with USEF or AQHA/APHA because I tried to turn him in. Alas, the breed card he held and the organization he represented didn't give a fig about what he'd done. Scary.

As a direct result of that show, my husband decided to judge local shows this year while on his way to getting his AQHA card. I honestly don't understand why more people don't do this. If you want change, step up to the plate and do something about it.

Now, all that said, I truly, honestly, from the bottom of my heart believe that AQHA IS TRYING TO CHANGE!!! (Sorry to yell ) Trrrust me, you guys, I'm seeing it with my own eyes. The problem is that it takes time to weed out the bad judges , or to get those bad judges on the same page as the "good" judge.

I truly believe that the days of the unnatural-looking lope are numbered. Just as I believe that the "wenglish" equitation rider is a thing of the past. And did you see the hunters at World and Congress this year? The horses they were using on the flat were floating around like any A level USEF horse...with level necks. The over fence horses could have won a hunter class at Devon.

I am very proud of AQHA and the direction they're going. I hope others will open their eyes and take note...things are changing. Don't assume it's the same-old, same-old, 'cause it's not.

Pamela Britton-Baer

ETA: that it might be the same-old, same-old at the local level breed shows because I've noticed things haven't trickled down from the top...yet!
     
    04-22-2010, 04:08 PM
  #70
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind    
They did not say anything about purposely loosing.

They said take a well trained horse doing a natural gate that meets the breed description of what the gate is supposed to be (not to be confused with the mutation that is happening now days) and if the judges do not place you know that you did what was right and enjoy it.

To me that DOES sound much better than the win at all costs theories.

But then, you thought that freaky moving horse #3 was wonderful so.... I guess I know where you stand on the win at all costs thing.
Right.

The thing is, when everyone says; "I don't like the way they place horses who lope so unatural so I'm not going to show..."
Who does that leave you with now that they are trying to change? People that are loping unatrual! So you have 10 people to pick from and they are all loping like crap... so right now they have to pick the best crappiest loper...

Again; that's jmo and what do I know? I'm one of those non-serious people who enjoy riding even if I don't win anything for it.
     

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