Spur Cues - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mayfieldk View Post
Of course it's not going to change the industry instantly. But by saying 'it's the fashion', you acknowledge that it's wrong, and that you don't care. You know blocking tails is still a fashion, right? Does that make it ok? Just because everyone--including major world show trainers--does it? Do you see how your logic is incredibly faulty?

Just because someone rides a horse and wins while doing something questionable, doesn't mean that it negates the questionable practice. AQHA trainers used to win world shows by letting the blood out of a horse's system so that they were tired and anemic--and slow. They used to win by drugging. They used to win by making the horse's so thin you could count seven ribs while at the World Show. The fact that they won DOESN'T MATTER. They STILL did something wrong.

A seat CAN get you a perfect stop, on a well trained horse, every time. The problem with this is that it's a lot harder, because you have to be a much better rider. When trainers train horses, they are not usually training them for good riders--they're training them for ammys and youth riders. And the majority of the time, those people don't have the body control to do a controlled stop with their seat. But you know what they CAN do, and almost any W/t/c rider can do? Hold in their spurs. THIS is why its still so big--it allows bad riders to look like good ones, and therefore allow bad riders to win equitation class. My horse stops on a dime, instantly, with my seat and 'whoa'. And he doesn't look crabby when he does it.

And no one ever said 4-beaters were winning the world show--I said they were still showing at that level. I believe that was in response to you saying that all the 4-beaters are gone, and they're not.

There are problems in every discipline. It is our job, for the horse's sake, to question these problems and do right by the horse.
You are right on point!

Savy, my advice is while you are still new to the sport, why not strive for the new standard the breeds are trying to get in the show ring? Just because it's still "in fashion" doesn't mean you can't be one of the people helping the sport to progress. If I were you I would ask my trainer about using my seat to slow and ask my horse to stop. I promise you it's possible! If you are looking at horses that are seasoned in WP, talk to the owner abou how they ask for halts if they aren't using spurs and give the horse a test ride.
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post #22 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayfieldk View Post
Of course it's not going to change the industry instantly. But by saying 'it's the fashion', you acknowledge that it's wrong, and that you don't care. You know blocking tails is still a fashion, right? Does that make it ok? Just because everyone--including major world show trainers--does it? Do you see how your logic is incredibly faulty?

Just because someone rides a horse and wins while doing something questionable, doesn't mean that it negates the questionable practice. AQHA trainers used to win world shows by letting the blood out of a horse's system so that they were tired and anemic--and slow. They used to win by drugging. They used to win by making the horse's so thin you could count seven ribs while at the World Show. The fact that they won DOESN'T MATTER. They STILL did something wrong.

A seat CAN get you a perfect stop, on a well trained horse, every time. The problem with this is that it's a lot harder, because you have to be a much better rider. When trainers train horses, they are not usually training them for good riders--they're training them for ammys and youth riders. And the majority of the time, those people don't have the body control to do a controlled stop with their seat. But you know what they CAN do, and almost any W/t/c rider can do? Hold in their spurs. THIS is why its still so big--it allows bad riders to look like good ones, and therefore allow bad riders to win equitation class. My horse stops on a dime, instantly, with my seat and 'whoa'. And he doesn't look crabby when he does it.

And no one ever said 4-beaters were winning the world show--I said they were still showing at that level. I believe that was in response to you saying that all the 4-beaters are gone, and they're not.

There are problems in every discipline. It is our job, for the horse's sake, to question these problems and do right by the horse.
first off, I dont really see anything wrong with spur stops. Its just another way of training. just like pp training, or whatever they do, swinging ropes around. and tail nerving has been banned. its illegal. And i know about the drawing blood, drugging, etc. They test horses at worlds for drugs, and even just breed shows.

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post #23 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 05:50 PM
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My trainer has been around for years and shown at multiple world competitions. He's now a carded judge. He has not trained his students to use spur stops - his personal preference and he feels like the industry is moving away from it. Bottom line, it is personal preference. Neither way is wrong. Do whatever you and your trainer feel comfortable with.
Regarding other cues, I do cue my horse to slow and collect off of spurs as well as turn, bend, etc. In WP and Horsemanship, the more subtle the cues, the higher the points. I try to use my reins as little as possible and cue my horse off seat, leg, and spur cues.
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post #24 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ridehorses99 View Post
My trainer has been around for years and shown at multiple world competitions. He's now a carded judge. He has not trained his students to use spur stops - his personal preference and he feels like the industry is moving away from it. Bottom line, it is personal preference. Neither way is wrong. Do whatever you and your trainer feel comfortable with.
Regarding other cues, I do cue my horse to slow and collect off of spurs as well as turn, bend, etc. In WP and Horsemanship, the more subtle the cues, the higher the points. I try to use my reins as little as possible and cue my horse off seat, leg, and spur cues.
exactly. and nicely put.

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post #25 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 08:10 PM
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If I ever sat on a horse that was trained to slow or stop when I used a spur, it would be off my property before you could blink.

I ride and train horses to be well rounded. I want my horses to be able to do a dressage test one day, work cattle the next, jump, and then go and do a working class complete with haunch turns, rollbacks and stops the next.

Training a horse to stop off the spur is the complete opposite of every other discipline, and completely counter-productive if you ever intend to do anything else.

The fact is that the AQHA have made statements saying they want it OUT, and there are other methods to acheive the exact same result, I can't see why anyone would be training spur stops.

I have two horses at home who slam their butt into the ground when I clench my butt and say whoah - one is a less-than-green-broke arab mare. No reins required. It isn't hard, it just takes a little skill, feel and coordination. I can do the exact same stop on my better trained horse without tack.

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post #26 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wild_spot View Post
If I ever sat on a horse that was trained to slow or stop when I used a spur, it would be off my property before you could blink.

I ride and train horses to be well rounded. I want my horses to be able to do a dressage test one day, work cattle the next, jump, and then go and do a working class complete with haunch turns, rollbacks and stops the next.

Training a horse to stop off the spur is the complete opposite of every other discipline, and completely counter-productive if you ever intend to do anything else.

The fact is that the AQHA have made statements saying they want it OUT, and there are other methods to acheive the exact same result, I can't see why anyone would be training spur stops.

I have two horses at home who slam their butt into the ground when I clench my butt and say whoah - one is a less-than-green-broke arab mare. No reins required. It isn't hard, it just takes a little skill, feel and coordination. I can do the exact same stop on my better trained horse without tack.
a spur stop doesnt mean the horse cant do anything else. my horse can jump, do dressage, wp, ep, and games.

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post #27 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 11:09 PM
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Can you ride those things in spurs? And ask for other things with your spurs, i.e. lateral movements, more impulsion?

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post #28 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wild_spot View Post
Can you ride those things in spurs? And ask for other things with your spurs, i.e. lateral movements, more impulsion?
umm ya. definitly. a horse with a spur stop can do anything a horse without a spur stop can do.

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post #29 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 11:49 PM
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Like, not stop when you put the spur on?

How does your horse distinguish between a spur asking for a stop and a spur asking for something else?

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post #30 of 119 Old 07-01-2010, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_spot View Post
Like, not stop when you put the spur on?

How does your horse distinguish between a spur asking for a stop and a spur asking for something else?
Actually, my trainer's horses can. Because a spur stop is a continuous squeeze with your spurs, with both legs, and everything else is NOT.

If you're not practicing, someone, somewhere is, and when you meet him, he will win.
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