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stiff western pleasure horse?

This is a discussion on stiff western pleasure horse? within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Hard spurring horses
  • Extreme lift in western pleasure horses

 
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    12-17-2010, 12:05 AM
  #11
Foal
I'll try to find a better video where you can see the horses moving his hind into the center. But I wanted this horse but found out he's 40k (bit over my budget ha!) so I looked at another that this owner had. Saw the gelding in the video- he's soo gorgeous. But anyways. Starting at 4:36 you can see the rider collecting him, then he moves his outside leg back slightly and keeps pressure on him (I use my whole leg, and little to know spur). Then the horse moves his hind in toward the center.. That's about how all of the horses are.
Hope that helped!
     
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    12-17-2010, 08:25 AM
  #12
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashforcache    
you must have posted this right as I was making my post because I never even saw it lol. In the vid it looks like you utilize your hands the same way I do so that makes me happy because I really had to work hard to fix my hands with my horse.
I will definitely work on the ground with flexing her head, I do that with my gelding as well, just was wondering if anyone had any other excersises. She is a very finicky horse. She's definitely going to keep me busy, she has some type of issue from the moment you tie her up to the moment you get off her.one things it doesn't seem like she does though gape her mouth.
With my gelding I can lightly one hand his head back into position with her it seems like someone has done the see saw thing becasue if I lift and drive she gets mad because of my leg but if I just lift she does nothing and as an experiment I did the back and forth with 2 hands and she dropped her head with no issues. I have only ridden her a few times so I am still getting to know her.
Ya, I am wondering if becasue of her not accepting leg if someone has stayed in her mouth more for what ever reason and that's where she's getting issues with having a hard mouth? She was put out at pasture most of the summer then they decided the one daughter wanted to take her to a show and never really rode her much before hand so when she got her in the ring she didn't behave very well obviously and one of her things was the girl had spurs on and anytime she felt the spur she tried to buck so I made her take the spur off and she was a bit better but the mare is a lot of horse and the girl isn't that experienced so she was pretty angry and i'm wondering if she just started using too much hand because of the leg resistance.
With the turns, I know when I ride reiners I lift with my inside rein and push with my outside leg in order to lift the inside shoulder in corners...is this what you mean?


I guess it could be my cues but I really don't think so, she is the same with anyone who rides her. I didn't really think that WP was that complicated, but I never competed in WP. I've done reining, English pleasure, H/J and the closest thing to WP is a combo class where you have to switch from EP to WP but there really isn't many ppl in my area that teach WP and I really don't know if I want to pay for lessons on this horse, i'm just riding her for a friend because she doesn't get any excersise but I like to fix problems with horses and she has so many so was wanting some suggestions. Thank you. You saidit's normal for them to bring their hip in at the canter, how much is normal? She really brings her hip in a lot.
Ok, I ride differently than you. I ride off my inside leg more and outside leg less. For lift in the shoulder, I pick up my inside rein and add inside leg. Almost like a counter arc. (it moves the shoulder over and up, and the hip in) If the horse doesnt respond, I will correct using an outside leg to get their hip in.

In the circles, I do the same, inside rein and inside leg keep the horse very flexable and over bending through the turn. The focus is on the horse learning to maintain balance and build strength.


triplembwp-"Hip in" should be a cue, not a way of going. In order to pick up a lead, the gait needs to start in the hind end. So, you use outside leg and move their hip in to cue for a lead.
It can also be a training tool to teach a horse to engage it's hindquarters, and drive forward. BUT it is not and should not be a way of going. If a horse maintains a two-track around the pen, it is over canted. It will bog a horse down and and sacrifice the gait when over used.
     
    12-17-2010, 02:19 PM
  #13
Foal
Yes it should be a cue, although some horses stay that way for the lope.
     
    12-17-2010, 10:13 PM
  #14
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckOff41570    
Ok, I ride differently than you. I ride off my inside leg more and outside leg less. For lift in the shoulder, I pick up my inside rein and add inside leg. Almost like a counter arc. (it moves the shoulder over and up, and the hip in) If the horse doesnt respond, I will correct using an outside leg to get their hip in.

In the circles, I do the same, inside rein and inside leg keep the horse very flexable and over bending through the turn. The focus is on the horse learning to maintain balance and build strength.


triplembwp-"Hip in" should be a cue, not a way of going. In order to pick up a lead, the gait needs to start in the hind end. So, you use outside leg and move their hip in to cue for a lead.
It can also be a training tool to teach a horse to engage it's hindquarters, and drive forward. BUT it is not and should not be a way of going. If a horse maintains a two-track around the pen, it is over canted. It will bog a horse down and and sacrifice the gait when over used.
ok, ya, I was shown that way with the reining stud I was riding this summer because when I was coming around for my rundowns he would severely drop his inside shoulder and drift toward the wall. I will try and see maybe your way would be better for this mare because she doesn't do it the same as he did, I just thought I would ask if that is how you were doing it.
For hip in, that is how I ask for a lead on all my horses as well and I have used it to help drive my gelding as well but I don't have him hold it and with this mare she holds it for the entire lope and not just a little bit...she's REALLY two tracking. It's actually not a comfortable feeling when they hold it that long IMO but it would be a good teaching aid for someone who is just learning, it gives a good feel of how the horse carries themselves lol. Especially since she has such strong leads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triplembwp    
I'll try to find a better video where you can see the horses moving his hind into the center. But I wanted this horse but found out he's 40k (bit over my budget ha!) so I looked at another that this owner had. Saw the gelding in the video- he's soo gorgeous. But anyways. Starting at 4:36 you can see the rider collecting him, then he moves his outside leg back slightly and keeps pressure on him (I use my whole leg, and little to know spur). Then the horse moves his hind in toward the center.. That's about how all of the horses are.
Hope that helped!
i haven't looked at the video yet, I will shortly though.thank you.
     
    01-10-2011, 03:47 PM
  #15
Foal
So just a quick update on this horse. I took her right back down to the ground and instead of flexing her with the snaffle bit I left my rope halter on her and did some flexing and moving her around on the ground. I think it's going to take a couple sessions before I get on her again. She is very stiff in her body and quite resistant when I ask her to move around. When I put pressure on her to move her hind end around she would give little kicks out with her back leg and swish her tail.
     
    01-10-2011, 04:03 PM
  #16
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by triplembwp    
WP horses shouldn't be stiff.. And it's normal for the horses to bring their hind in to the center at the lope. This allows them to really use their hind in correctly, and not sling their head up and down and lean on the forehand. However, the horse shouldn't be that grumpy. It might be your cues. I find WP training way more complicated English, etc. You might just have to ask for some instruction, and see how that goes.
Actually, it can disengage the hind end. I can, however, be a helpful tool when aiding to go into the canter to get a nice bend. It can also be used for a short time to prevent the horse from changing leads. But, this can cause some bad habits like always traveling crooked.

In order to collect fully, a horses hind end must be directly beneath them and in line with their front legs. When a horses hind end is to the inside all of the energy and collection just "slips out" of the side that the hind end is on.
     
    01-10-2011, 06:33 PM
  #17
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksly    
Actually, it can disengage the hind end. I can, however, be a helpful tool when aiding to go into the canter to get a nice bend. It can also be used for a short time to prevent the horse from changing leads. But, this can cause some bad habits like always traveling crooked.

In order to collect fully, a horses hind end must be directly beneath them and in line with their front legs. When a horses hind end is to the inside all of the energy and collection just "slips out" of the side that the hind end is on.
thanks, I kinda thought that it was not proper (but if asked could never have worded it like that) so I thought I would ask because she is quite extreme. Any excersises from the ground to help loosen up her body that anyone has would be helpful. Thanks.
     
    01-10-2011, 06:45 PM
  #18
Yearling
You could always do small circles (5m-10m) at the walk while squeezing with your inside calf and bringing your inside had down and toward your knee. Then once the horse is a litte softer, almost leg-yeild him into a larger circle (only a couple of meters at a time) and then continue, getting larger and larger while changing directions.

Then you can move onto the trot and canter as well.
     
    01-10-2011, 06:55 PM
  #19
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksly    
You could always do small circles (5m-10m) at the walk while squeezing with your inside calf and bringing your inside had down and toward your knee. Then once the horse is a litte softer, almost leg-yeild him into a larger circle (only a couple of meters at a time) and then continue, getting larger and larger while changing directions.

Then you can move onto the trot and canter as well.
thanks, when I get back on her I will try that out. I have a really hard time explaining how she feels. She's very stiff, resistant and it's like she doesn't want to do what you want and so as a result when she does do as you ask it's very slow moving unmotivated.
     
    01-10-2011, 07:17 PM
  #20
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashforcache    
thanks, when I get back on her I will try that out. I have a really hard time explaining how she feels. She's very stiff, resistant and it's like she doesn't want to do what you want and so as a result when she does do as you ask it's very slow moving unmotivated.
I have a horse that does the exact same thing. He will just hang and be very stiff until I get him supple. I always think of it like breaking up a glowstick.
     

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