What's the point...

Of disengaging the hindend? From what I've read around sometimes WP horse riders will let the horse go around on the front end to get a more "pleasure-y" gait. But, what's the point of this? Isn't a horse suposed to go from their hind end lifting the front end up? Just from my dressage backround none of this makes sense.

Sorry if this question sounds stupid to you WP riders and I'm not saying that any of it's a bad thing! I'm just quite curious about why this would be.

Western pleasure riders will end up letting the horse go around on the front end because it is SO hard to keep them on their rear. I don't think they are doing it on purpose, or for a more pleasurey gait because it is not comfortable when they ride heavy on the front end and alot of times they will end up breaking into that broken peanut roller lope.

It's one of the hardest things for me personally to acheive (the proper lope)....

That's interesting because I don't find getting a slower "lope" like canter out of my horse with his head and neck streached down hard.

...I can do it in my english saddle much better than western... :(

Yes, I do feel that the ammount of leather under my legs hinders the ability to feel how the horse is moving, which greatly hinders my english trained riding :P, and the saddles are down right uncomfortable to me! >_<

If you were talking to a trainer and he mentioned disengaging the hind end in respect to riding, run as fast as you can. No WP trainer will tell you to do that--not even the bad ones.

However, there is a lot of talk about it in western in respect to lunging and leading. This has nothing to do with collection, and everything to do with control over the horse. The horse's power comes from his hind end--if he needs to run away from something, kick something, that comes from the engine. If you tell him where to put in, and swing it off balance, the horse finds he has to listen to you. Getting control of this will make a lot of 'unruly' horses better in just a few moments.

The problem with getting the true lope and true jog is that WP trainers tell you to slow down to collect. In reality, you collect to slow down. This changes the fundamentals of riding the WP horse--you have to work him FORWARD FORWARD FORWARD, because you CAN. NOT. Have collection without impulsion (forward relaxed, controlled movement). That is the push. Then, and only then, can you work on the 'carry', which also will slow them down.

Slowing them down (pulling back on the reins, 'pushing them into your hand' by squeezing with your legs and holding with your hands, slowing your body, checking), before the horse has the muscles to go forward, will result in a horse on the forehand 100% of the time.

^I've actually read it on here somewhere and was just curious... Ms. High Adrenaline XC isn't going to become a convert anytime soon! :P

But I agree, collection isn't collection without the hind end

First off let me start by saying a horse can't truly lope without being collected. If you watch the aqha/apha worlds western pleasure you see that EVERY SINGLE horse is driving from the hind end, collected, slow and with a good headset. If a western pleasure horse is on its front end, it will trope or trip, and trust me, tropers do NOT place in a western Pleasure class.

this western pleasure horse is collected and slow.

See that is where I disagree. NONE of the horses shown in that video are either collected or driving from the rear.

The horse is in fact pulling itself along and the rear is doing what it needs to to keep pace. They are all on the forehand.

I posted this on another thread and to achieve the beginnings of collection all horses in all disciplines must satisfy the following.....................

An even loading on all four legs and where the horse has given its body up to the riders full commands (in other words moves easily throughout).

With what was being posted on that other thread I was going to post a thread on understanding collection but given the fact that people will never do searches and still ask I figured it was a waste of time so I suggest people just google it on the net.

Thank you spyder for saying what I wanted to say but was to afraid too... haha. I guess im just to 'go with the flow' sometimes.
The only thought going through my head that entire video was "IMPULSION!!!!!!PLEASEPLEASEPLEASELEASE IMPULSION!" and at the end while I was watching ones hind leg I thought "If that horse was cantering on uneven ground, or ground with a clod of dirt... It would have fallen on its face, that back leg never left the ground.