What's the point... - Page 12
 
 

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What's the point...

This is a discussion on What's the point... within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Old style western pleasure

 
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    06-29-2010, 01:09 AM
  #111
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84    
There is a certain "clique" that comes along in many, many threads, they shut down anyone that has a different opinion then they do. They start throwing compliments around to each other and patting each others backs while slamming other folks and their disciplines. I came to this forum to learn. It was a much different environement when people weren't so quick to judge. That comment was not directed at you, Anabel isn't even in this thread, it wasn't directed at Spyder. I was most probably out of line to make the comment. Report the post and let other mods discipline me. I'm not above anyone else on the forum.
I actually read all 11 pages of this thread (can't sleep) and I have to say that I've been on this forum for a few months and really haven't found any instances of this.
There are many posters on this forum who have wonderful reputations for giving time tested, well thought out, appropriate advice. Wild_Spot, Maura, AllisonFinch, Spyder, JDI, MIE, Anebel, who are whom I'm interested in being an english rider, but I have also noticed kevinshorses, smrobs, wild_spot again, and, the terrible loss of RiosDad. It's obvious these are well educated people who give up moments of their time to further educate us on becoming better horsepeople. No offense, but I have not particularly seen you step out with any groundbreaking advice. Perhaps you have and I missed it, but I read a LOT of this forum in the last few months. I'd appreciate the advice and comments and absorb it.
Also, I have NEVER seen them run around and pat each other's backs. This is the possibly first instance which I've seen them compliment each other, and I don't find anything wrong with it.
I find your comment pretty rude, personally, and quite out of line for someone in your "position" in the forum.
To all posters, western, english, jumpers, western pleasure riders, carriage drivers, etc, keep on truckin'. I love your posts :)
     
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    06-29-2010, 02:41 AM
  #112
Yearling
I must first admit I've only read 5 pages of this...so this may have been adressed but...

When I think ultimate Western collection and a horse that looks like the most pleasure to ride I think reining. Why must WP standards slow a horse down so so much that engaged hind end or not the end result is often very very rocking-horsesque? For me slowwwww is in no way pleasureable. Is there anyway to ask WP riders to allow a little more speed in a horse (something compareable to a small slow circle in reining as I saw someone mentioned) in the show ring? It will cut a lot of the beef this sport gets IMO.
     
    06-29-2010, 02:56 AM
  #113
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorelhorse    
OK, I've already said what collection is...thats it..not much more.
And how can you say someone has "broader experience". Remember, this is the internet, you can't judge people like that.

So heres the deal. In 99% of shows if you enter your "collected" horse against any good WP horse, the WP horse will win. (not jumping or racing, just a standard horse show) WP horses are like the kings of the show industry. How could they get there if they aren't collected? Are you saying all the judges don't know what they are judging? No. WP horses are collected, and have impulsion from behind.
I'm sorry but in stumbling through the rest of the pages in this thread I came across this and must comment.

To put it bluntly, this is so incredibly rude! To say that a WP horse will win over any other horse everytime is ridiculous! How can you compare dressage to WP or a forward HUS horse to WP?Kings of the show industry? What do you even mean by that? You've hit a common known fact (although you seem to be lost on it) that not all judges judge fair. I'm sure every person who has, shown just about anywhere, has experienced a biased judge or a judge with certain preferances and horses who should place do not.

I know little about you but I would advise you to be a little less defensive, because no one was trul trying to attack you in the beginning. Now you are ignoring horsemen who seem to really know what they are talking about and are not even considering the possibility you may not know all the answers.
     
    06-29-2010, 11:06 AM
  #114
Weanling
So I had a show this past Sunday and it was very interesting to see how everything turned out. It is just a local club show but they do get pretty good judges in. There is one horse that goes to this show that is old school WP, he has the 4 beat lope and looks terribly uncomfertable to ride. Anyway, she was saying that she was at a show on Saturday and the judge told her that her horse was to slow and she didn't place at all. At the show that I was at the only reason she placed higher then me was because my horse didn't pick up his right lead to start, if he had the judge said I would have gotten 1st. As it was I got 2nd. The judge also mentioned some of the new WP rules including that they want more forward motion from the horses.

It is really nice to see that things are starting to change in the judging world even at the local shows.

This horse also went in some of the games (ridden by the daughter), when she asked him to go faster then the lope he bucked on her. They said it's because he doesn't know how to run. My question is, what horse doesn't know how to run? They all can (not always with a rider, but they all can). This is a great example of why old school WP horses can't do anything other then WP, this horse wouldn't even be able to do a fast circle in reinging or something like that. It is a shame that some people never train their horse to carry a rider in ALL gaits, I don't begrudge them going slow, I just don't understand why they don't get control over everything the horse has.

Anyway, just thought I would share that little tid-bit from the weekend.
     
    06-29-2010, 11:26 AM
  #115
Green Broke
^very interesting!
     
    06-29-2010, 11:39 AM
  #116
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvera    
So I had a show this past Sunday and it was very interesting to see how everything turned out. It is just a local club show but they do get pretty good judges in. There is one horse that goes to this show that is old school WP, he has the 4 beat lope and looks terribly uncomfertable to ride. Anyway, she was saying that she was at a show on Saturday and the judge told her that her horse was to slow and she didn't place at all. At the show that I was at the only reason she placed higher then me was because my horse didn't pick up his right lead to start, if he had the judge said I would have gotten 1st. As it was I got 2nd. The judge also mentioned some of the new WP rules including that they want more forward motion from the horses.

It is really nice to see that things are starting to change in the judging world even at the local shows.

This horse also went in some of the games (ridden by the daughter), when she asked him to go faster then the lope he bucked on her. They said it's because he doesn't know how to run. My question is, what horse doesn't know how to run? They all can (not always with a rider, but they all can). This is a great example of why old school WP horses can't do anything other then WP, this horse wouldn't even be able to do a fast circle in reinging or something like that. It is a shame that some people never train their horse to carry a rider in ALL gaits, I don't begrudge them going slow, I just don't understand why they don't get control over everything the horse has.

Anyway, just thought I would share that little tid-bit from the weekend.
A couple years ago I had the same thing happen to me. It was a horse I was thinking about buying. I showed him for a season and I had one judge pull me aside and tell me he was a great horse, nice conformation, good mover, but that she would not pin him with that lope, it was broken and incorrect. I didn't buy him but a friend of mine did. She pushed him out into a true lope and he does well. But apparently once they get forced into that "broken" lope, that's what it feels like to me, a lope in the front and a trot in the back, it's really hard to get them out of it...
     
    06-29-2010, 11:51 AM
  #117
Yearling
Silvera I've seen that too, were we at the same show?? Haha. Seriously though I'm happy about the new rules, because even though they aren't perfect and many horses still look nearly lame in the show ring, Judges are starting to ever so slighty pick the horses that carry themselves naturally.

I completely agree with you about utilizing all the gaits a horse has. Why have a horse that can't move out at a trot or lope undersaddle? What happens if you two aren't cut out for WP? You certainly can't take those gaits else where.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    06-29-2010, 12:54 PM
  #118
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacdougall    
No offense, but I have not particularly seen you step out with any groundbreaking advice.
I just want to address this comment for the moment regarding advice and a mod position.

I have already run into one mod that chose to give advice and the problem with giving advice is you can get tagged as being pro this or that. This is fine for a non staff member but can be a disaster for staff members.

Mods have to have a neutral position and this is in fact the first time I have seen farmpony even looking like she is on one side of the fence. This is uncharacteristic of her and we must realize even mods are human and can have a personal preference slip out.

It didn't bother me as I feel (in spite of her stealing Percy) that she is one of the fairest mods here and things happen. I try to stay as fair as I can when posting and not try to say I am right and everyone else is wrong. I DO try to point out what I see and where I come from and leave it up to the others to try to see what I see. Am I passionate about what I believe...you bet and at least I can take that step. If I were a mod would be accused of being prejudiced....mods just have to rein in some things they would like to say and sometimes emotions can take over and slip out.

I would be far more concerned if HF was run like Horsetopia where nothing can be said that the mods didn't approve of and deletion of posts and warnings came at any disagreement or post that was in disagreement to the "established" members.
     
    06-29-2010, 01:06 PM
  #119
Weanling
[QUOTE=Silvera;674670]So I had a show this past Sunday and it was very interesting to see how everything turned out. It is just a local club show but they do get pretty good judges in. There is one horse that goes to this show that is old school WP, he has the 4 beat lope and looks terribly uncomfertable to ride. Anyway, she was saying that she was at a show on Saturday and the judge told her that her horse was to slow and she didn't place at all. At the show that I was at the only reason she placed higher then me was because my horse didn't pick up his right lead to start, if he had the judge said I would have gotten 1st. As it was I got 2nd. The judge also mentioned some of the new WP rules including that they want more forward motion from the horses.

It is really nice to see that things are starting to change in the judging world even at the local shows.

This horse also went in some of the games (ridden by the daughter), when she asked him to go faster then the lope he bucked on her. They said it's because he doesn't know how to run. My question is, what horse doesn't know how to run? They all can (not always with a rider, but they all can). This is a great example of why old school WP horses can't do anything other then WP, this horse wouldn't even be able to do a fast circle in reinging or something like that. It is a shame that some people never train their horse to carry a rider in ALL gaits, I don't begrudge them going slow, I just don't understand why they don't get control over everything the horse has.

/[QUOTE]

Theres a difference between the old style wp horses and the new style western pleasure horses. The one at your show was definitely an old style-the 4bt lope and head literally on the ground. You may say theres no difference between the old and the new, but there is. The new ones are a 3 BEAT lope and there heads arent on the ground. And im going to agree, old style wp horses are ugly. That's probably why you couldve beat them.

Also, about the barrel thing, that was probably just a crappy horse. At worlds and even local shows, EVERYONE goes in the games clases for the highpoint. And they make their horses run, without getting bucked off.
     
    06-29-2010, 01:07 PM
  #120
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke    
Silvera I've seen that too, were we at the same show?? Haha. Seriously though I'm happy about the new rules, because even though they aren't perfect and many horses still look nearly lame in the show ring, Judges are starting to ever so slighty pick the horses that carry themselves naturally.

I completely agree with you about utilizing all the gaits a horse has. Why have a horse that can't move out at a trot or lope undersaddle? What happens if you two aren't cut out for WP? You certainly can't take those gaits else where.
Posted via Mobile Device
alot of wp horses also do english pleasure.
     

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