What's the point... - Page 2
 
 

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What's the point...

This is a discussion on What's the point... within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category

     
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        06-22-2010, 11:30 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by StormyBlues    
    That's interesting because I don't find getting a slower "lope" like canter out of my horse with his head and neck streached down hard.
    Fabulous. So I'm pretty slow to get agitated, but I feel like the point of you starting this thread is to bash the discipline. You don't like the event. Fine. Leave it alone. You don't like western tack because of all the leather. Fine. Go back to doing X/C and leave us know nothing, 4 beating, leg dragging pleasure riders alone. You said you'd never convert so why are you bothering if you have already obviously formed an opinion? To be confrontational.
    Ya, I'll get flamed for this but in my highly hormonal 8-month-preggo-and-bitchy state, I honestly could care less. I can't wait to have this baby so I can climb back on one of those unbalanced, abused, peanut rollers and go and 4 beat around the arena until can find a X/C or dressage rider to teach me better.
    Rant over.
         
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        06-22-2010, 11:38 PM
      #12
    Green Broke
    ^ she wasn't looking for a fight, or to bash. She had a question she wanted to get cleared up so she didn't go around thinking that's the wrong thing.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        06-23-2010, 09:05 AM
      #13
    Super Moderator
    Shesinthebarn, I think you were fine to lay it out the way you did.

    Here is a video of Chips Hot Chocolate, this is the ride that I prefer:

    YouTube - Copy of AQHA Sire, Chips Hot Chocolate by Hall of Fame Stallion Zips Chocolate Chip
         
        06-23-2010, 09:33 AM
      #14
    Trained
    Quote:
    See that is where I disagree. NONE of the horses shown in that video are either collected or driving from the rear.

    The horse is in fact pulling itself along and the rear is doing what it needs to to keep pace. They are all on the forehand.

    I posted this on another thread and to achieve the beginnings of collection all horses in all disciplines must satisfy the following.....................

    An even loading on all four legs and where the horse has given its body up to the riders full commands (in other words moves easily throughout).

    With what was being posted on that other thread I was going to post a thread on understanding collection but given the fact that people will never do searches and still ask I figured it was a waste of time so I suggest people just google it on the net.
    Great post Spyder!

    Quote:
    Fabulous. So I'm pretty slow to get agitated, but I feel like the point of you starting this thread is to bash the discipline. You don't like the event. Fine. Leave it alone. You don't like western tack because of all the leather. Fine. Go back to doing X/C and leave us know nothing, 4 beating, leg dragging pleasure riders alone. You said you'd never convert so why are you bothering if you have already obviously formed an opinion? To be confrontational.
    Ya, I'll get flamed for this but in my highly hormonal 8-month-preggo-and-bitchy state, I honestly could care less. I can't wait to have this baby so I can climb back on one of those unbalanced, abused, peanut rollers and go and 4 beat around the arena until can find a X/C or dressage rider to teach me better.
    Rant over.
    Talk about jumping to conclusions? I don't see ANYWHERE where Stormy was stating that she wanted this thread to be about bashing the "abused peanut rolling, miserable looking WP horses" anywhere?

    As clearly stated in the OP - this thread is about wanting to better understand the theory behind the world of WP riding and how they get their horses to move.

    So that people who read this, and who do not have anything to do with WP or ever will - can better understand the theories behind this style of riding as well. Remember, there are far more who lurk than who post, and I am quite sure that many of them who are not involved in WP, probobly think the same thing.

    So, instead of getting all pissed off and going off on a tizzy - why not educate instead of getting all sarcastic and flame? It's not her fault that she doesn't know or understand this "world" of riding - nor is it anyone elses fault for not understanding. I applaud anyone who has the courage to step forward and ask questions, instead of going around in their daily lives believing something that was told to them by someone who isn't involved in the sport.

    Would you rather they go around believing that WP peanut rolling is abusive? Or would you prefer for them to know the reasonings behind it, so that the next time someone bashes WP, they can say "well, actually...."

    Would you rather they be educated by someone who doesn't do the sport? Or by someone who does?
         
        06-23-2010, 10:04 AM
      #15
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by farmpony84    
    Shesinthebarn, I think you were fine to lay it out the way you did.

    Here is a video of Chips Hot Chocolate, this is the ride that I prefer:

    YouTube - Copy of AQHA Sire, Chips Hot Chocolate by Hall of Fame Stallion Zips Chocolate Chip

    See the thing is it doesn't bother me that people want their horse to go like this but they do need to be educated and not call it something it isn't. Even this horse does not satisfy the description of collection I posted.

    That does not mean what they are doing is wrong or abusive it is simply what they do but they are NOT collected so call it a shortened gait if they want as that would be closer to what has been achieved.

    But shortened gait is still not collection.

    Good post MIE !
         
        06-23-2010, 10:58 AM
      #16
    Super Moderator
    I love western pleasure and I am aiming for that look that I posted, but I do agree, if you watch a video of a reiner, you'll see a much different way of going. It's really cool actually.

    I have watched hunt videos and thought horses looked completely on the forehand and just plain sloppy, yet I watched that series Horse Power, and those hunt horses were very on the money as far as collection go's. I've seen high level dressage videos that are really yucky yet I've seen others that are just beautiful to watch.

    Spyder, Although I have nearly 30 years of riding experience with over 20 in a lesson program of some sort, I am not nearly as educated as you when it comes to the mechanics of a horses movements, the hows and the whys. I've only had a TRUE trainer for about the last 6 years. Imagine my shock when I went to my first lesson and found out that I didn't even know the proper cues to canter! This is why I find your responses so informative. I love that when it's an honost thread, with a true question/debate, you can come in and give great inputs so that we can all learn....

    (I do still like the western pleasure look though).... :)
         
        06-23-2010, 11:21 AM
      #17
    Yearling
    It's the insinuatiation of the responses to the original post that bother me. I feel like so many people start WP threads under the pretext of wanting to educate themselves when in actual fact they just seem to want to prove a point that THEY are correct. In other words, they already think they have the answer but feel the need to debate about it. If someone feels the need to argue about the the basic philosophy of a discipline than just call a spade a spade. It's not just this thread, either. Do I think the OP actually cares about WP? Not so much. Maybe she is just curious, but it seems to me that an opinion had already been formed.
    I think farmpony was getting responses that were somewhat condescending and that upset me as she always tries to be so darn nice about explaining things. She and other WP riders seem to be constantly apologizing for the sport and trying to convince others that things are getting better or they don't have horses that move like that.. It's like holding up a sign and saying "please, please like me!?"
    No, the dressage definition of collection does not apply here. It's not dressage. We may use some of the same words, but they have different meanings to different folks. No one has the sole rights to a word or definition.
    Like I say, I'm pretty slow to get irritated, but I feel like no other disciplines get a bum wrap like WP/HUS/WH type, especially on this forum. It can get a little grating on the nerves. Ya, it's different from other disciplines. So what?

    Oh, and I love that horse you posted, farmpony. My personal fave of the moment is One Hot Krymsun. Perhaps we need a "WP pride Day" where some of the closeted WP lovers can come out of the closet and express their love for the big butted, slow legged, low headset having, deep hocked silver laden beauties.
         
        06-23-2010, 11:34 AM
      #18
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spyder    
    See the thing is it doesn't bother me that people want their horse to go like this but they do need to be educated and not call it something it isn't. Even this horse does not satisfy the description of collection I posted.

    That does not mean what they are doing is wrong or abusive it is simply what they do but they are NOT collected so call it a shortened gait if they want as that would be closer to what has been achieved.

    But shortened gait is still not collection.

    Good post MIE !
    OK, that is probably one of the most collected horses it gets. Lets put it this way-If it wasnt, it would fall on its face. So how about YOU post a video of what you think collection is?
         
        06-23-2010, 11:36 AM
      #19
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shesinthebarn    
    It's the insinuatiation of the responses to the original post that bother me. I feel like so many people start WP threads under the pretext of wanting to educate themselves when in actual fact they just seem to want to prove a point that THEY are correct. In other words, they already think they have the answer but feel the need to debate about it. If someone feels the need to argue about the the basic philosophy of a discipline than just call a spade a spade. It's not just this thread, either. Do I think the OP actually cares about WP? Not so much. Maybe she is just curious, but it seems to me that an opinion had already been formed.
    I think farmpony was getting responses that were somewhat condescending and that upset me as she always tries to be so darn nice about explaining things. She and other WP riders seem to be constantly apologizing for the sport and trying to convince others that things are getting better or they don't have horses that move like that.. It's like holding up a sign and saying "please, please like me!?"
    No, the dressage definition of collection does not apply here. It's not dressage. We may use some of the same words, but they have different meanings to different folks. No one has the sole rights to a word or definition.
    Like I say, I'm pretty slow to get irritated, but I feel like no other disciplines get a bum wrap like WP/HUS/WH type, especially on this forum. It can get a little grating on the nerves. Ya, it's different from other disciplines. So what?
    .
    and most of these people have never ridden a *good* western Pleasure horse before. It would help to make your conclusion sbout collection if ya rode one.
         
        06-23-2010, 01:08 PM
      #20
    Super Moderator
    I have to agree that I personally feel there have been a large number of western pleasure bashing threads lately. I also feel there have been a great number of Quarter Horse bashing threads. Sometimes I read something and want to say exactly what shesinthebarn just said. I think alot of these types of threads are started by "Ignorant" folks.

    I was at my first Canine Good Citizen class last night and the trainer was talking about certain types of collars and the proper use of them. Most people would look at the collar and say "CRUEL" or "HARSH" but when used properly, the dog feels the same type of pinch it would get from it's mother. Used incorrectly, then it could become abusive.

    Specific bits may look harsh but in the proper hands, they are simply a tool. Nothing more. In the wrong hands, they are inducers of pain.

    I'm not sure I've ever seen a "hunter bashing" thread on here and very few dressage bashing threads. Why is that? Not because it's the "better or more superior" sport, but because it's the more popular sport ON THIS FORUM.

    If you truley want the to know something, then ask the question, if you just want to start a fight, then stay out of it. Stormyblues doesn't generally start threads just to instigate trouble so I'm thinking she really wanted to know the answer. But I have to agree, there have been alot of bashing threads lately....

    Rant over.....
         

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