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What's the point...

This is a discussion on What's the point... within the Western Pleasure forums, part of the Western Riding category

     
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        06-24-2010, 09:26 AM
      #41
    Banned
    No one said Western Pleasure riders do not work hard and no one called them morons.
         
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        06-24-2010, 09:51 AM
      #42
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by farmpony84    
    For example, the Western pivot, in which the horse pivots on his inside hind leg, changes to turn on the haunches in dressage - through the rider's inside leg directing him to stay "forward" while his hind feet continue to step around throughout the turn.

    Just know that there is one MAJOR fundamental difference between a western pivot and a turn on the haunches.

    The pivot has the horse turning around one hind leg that is placed on the ground and DOES NOT move (other than swivel) as the other leg moves around it.

    The turn on the haunches MUST have both legs move and the leg that is pivoted around MUST take a step while turning. It is a major fault to have that leg stay planted on the ground.

    Just though I would clarify for those not knowing the difference.
         
        06-24-2010, 10:06 AM
      #43
    Green Broke
    I didn't know it would be this big of a problem. I saw no problem with the wording and title, just something to make people want to read and answer my question! I wasn't intending on a full fledged debate on collection!
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        06-24-2010, 10:29 AM
      #44
    Started
    Post

    I've ridden dressage and WP horses. My horse will be trained in both. But seriously? Most WP horses aren't collected properly. Some people think there horses are collected and working off the hind-end but most are not. I've ridden a horse that was a champion is WP shows through-out the state and I can honestly say, that was one of the most uncomfortable rides I've ever had. I love both disiplines, I believe there is something to learn from each. But I believe WP riders are uneducated in the correct way to collect a horse and how to recieve collection. Its not the riders fault but it is more of an industry thing. No I'm not bashing the sport, just saying how I see things. I've seen many trainers who never allow the horses to move faster, the horses life is lived in the slow-lane. These trainers honestly think that thier horse is collected just because the horse is going slow. I mean look at dressage. Even the collected canter isn't as slow or choppy as the WP lope.
         
        06-24-2010, 10:29 AM
      #45
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind    
    No one said Western Pleasure riders do not work hard and no one called them morons.
    Sorry, that was my smarty pants voice, it didn't come through in my typing...
         
        06-24-2010, 11:02 AM
      #46
    Weanling
    Collection is when the horse rounds his back, therefore using his hind end to drive him foward and off of his front end.
         
        06-24-2010, 11:05 AM
      #47
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by farmpony84    
    No one said collection = slow.

    This simple question has quickly become a debate that has escalated to competition mode. It's a competition that can not be won. Western Pleasure folks work VERY hard to acheive the ride. Dressage riders also work hard. No one is doubting that. What people aren't stating is that there are a number of similarities between certain Western disciplines and dressage. For instance, the competitive-trail horse. A trail class includes maneuvers similar to those in a lower-level dressage test: turn on the forehand, turn on the haunches, controlled backing, lateral work, and exacting up and down transitions.

    Horses trained in Western riding, horsemanship, and reining are fairly adaptable to dressage. For example, the Western pivot, in which the horse pivots on his inside hind leg, changes to turn on the haunches in dressage - through the rider's inside leg directing him to stay "forward" while his hind feet continue to step around throughout the turn.

    So... You can type that western pleasure folks are "morons" until your fingers are blue. 'Cus you "aint" changin' my opinions!
    haha. I liked this post
         
        06-24-2010, 11:20 AM
      #48
    Weanling
    In AQHA for a very long time they where looking for what was shown in those videos. They where looking for the horse that had a super low headset and crazy slow gait, unfortunatly that isn't a natural gait for a horse. Yes I do know that there are horses that will lope in a feild, but even they don't lope like that when they don't have to.

    The rules have changed however in the last little while. They are looking for more forward motion in the lope, they want the horse to track up and actually move in correct confermation. They don't want the horses head to be way down touching the ground, they want the poll to be either level with or just above the weithers.

    SorelHorse, just because a horse has a round back doesn't mean they are collected. A horse will round out its back for 1 of 2 things. 1 for true collection so they can reach up under themselves and use their back end to help move them forward. Or 2 because they are bracing themselves so they don't have to move their back feet as much. If the horse is truely collected then their feet will come up underneith themselves and push them forward.

    I do ride and train WP, all of my horses start in WP before moving on to whatever other disipline they are going into, including reining, jumping, and dressage. If the WP horse is trained properly then they can transition to anything, if not then they will only ever do WP. I love WP but I will never train a horse to move like they do in those video's.
         
        06-24-2010, 11:27 AM
      #49
    Green Broke
    ^thank you. That made alot of sense!
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        06-24-2010, 11:59 AM
      #50
    Started
    Post

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Silvera    
    In AQHA for a very long time they where looking for what was shown in those videos. They where looking for the horse that had a super low headset and crazy slow gait, unfortunatly that isn't a natural gait for a horse. Yes I do know that there are horses that will lope in a feild, but even they don't lope like that when they don't have to.

    The rules have changed however in the last little while. They are looking for more forward motion in the lope, they want the horse to track up and actually move in correct confermation. They don't want the horses head to be way down touching the ground, they want the poll to be either level with or just above the weithers.

    SorelHorse, just because a horse has a round back doesn't mean they are collected. A horse will round out its back for 1 of 2 things. 1 for true collection so they can reach up under themselves and use their back end to help move them forward. Or 2 because they are bracing themselves so they don't have to move their back feet as much. If the horse is truely collected then their feet will come up underneith themselves and push them forward.

    I do ride and train WP, all of my horses start in WP before moving on to whatever other disipline they are going into, including reining, jumping, and dressage. If the WP horse is trained properly then they can transition to anything, if not then they will only ever do WP. I love WP but I will never train a horse to move like they do in those video's.
    Very good post!
         

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