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3 vs 4 beat

24K views 51 replies 16 participants last post by  GottaRide 
#1 ·
After reading the western pleasure subforum, I became confused. Just what is the difference between the 3 beat canter and the 4 beat canter. Obviously the 3 beat should have three distinct footfalls, but what exactly is the 4 beat caner? Is it a hand gallop?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Its like a trope.
Its when the horse(its not always at the lope) tries to lope, but doesnt pick up their leading shoulder and doesnt take weight off the front end, so it looks like they are trotting in front and loping in back. Ill see if i can find a video of it. its very ugly when you see it.
 
#8 ·
The horse actually does both. At times the lope barely satisfies the 3 beat but then you will see the 4 beat creep in.

There will appear as if the horse goes lame for 4 or 5 steps intermittently.
 
#9 · (Edited)
The "trope", "tra-canter", or the "cripple-canter" looks something like this:

Or this (watch closely on the third horse especially):


Often, the four-beat lope or canter is the result of forcing "collection", with the incorrect use of the hand, gadgets (like draw-reins, et cetera), or even lameness.
I rode a dressage warmblood that was over-ridden in draw reins, and she had a four-beat canter.


By the way, you have no idea how weird it is watching Western Pleasure while listening to Metal. Too weird.
 
#12 ·
The "trope", "tra-canter", or the "cripple-canter" looks something like this:
YouTube - Western Pleasure Lope

Or this (watch closely on the third horse especially):
YouTube - Scottsdale Classic 3 Year Old Western Pleasure Futurity


By the way, you have no idea how weird it is watching Western Pleasure while listening to Metal. Too weird.
the first one was DEFINITLY troping. the was a 4 beat. its so ugly

the second one wasnt as bad, but still not the greatest.
 
#16 ·
I couldn't see spyders video for some reason. Here is one, not a good video but you can see it.
 
#22 ·
Riley will break into that when he gets confused. It is SO hard to sit, it's like this sideways forward jiggley awful bounce. No fun. That too slow lope is hard enough to sit, then to ad that trope... yucky.
 
#35 ·
Okay, so the new western pleasure lope is the four beat and the three beat is the more natural easier to sit one that you will see more of in English classes. Thanks that's cleared everything up a lot for me. Thank you everyone.
 
#36 ·
Umm, no.
The "new" western lope a three beat gait. It's the way it is now & the way is always should have been. This is the correct way:



I wouldn't say that it is easier to sit either, because those really good WP horses have a lot of kick & lift when they are really using themselves correctly.

The bad lope that no one wants & doesn't win looks like this:
 
#38 ·
It's amazing how we've made some WP horses gated, isn't it??

Cowboy can fall into the trope really easily, simply because he tries too hard to go slow sometimes and he gets sloppy. It's the most uncomfortable thing in the world to sit.
 
#39 ·
I haven't read all the post but I find people also misdiagnois a 4 beat sometimes too.

I've notice quite a few people believe the hind legs should land on the ground at the same time. Which a really good loper generally does.

However the key to detecting a true 4 beat is looking at the foot falls. The inside hind and outside front should land on the ground at the same time and the inside front is a seperate beat as well as the outside hind.

When a horse isn't landing at the same time in the hind end its not a case of 4 beating all the time, just sometimes a horse that can't do it or lack cadence or impulsion.

A horse who 4 beats, at least at AQHA shows will be DQ'd. 4 beating is incorrect.
 
#40 ·
Just my opinion~ both the three beat and four beat versions of the "lope" posted in the videos on this thread just look yucky to me. I'm not a WP person, and it's probably been 20 years since I even watched a WP class, but geez, I really don't see the appeal. I mean, I guess it's sort of spiffy to be able to train a horse to lope like it was in a race against a tortise, and trying not to win, but I don't realy understand the point. I think both the "ideal" WP lope and the 4 beat are grotesque. ~My 2 cents worth :D
 
#43 ·
I definitely like the sound of that! I just don't see much impulsion in the video clips I watched. I see slow, but no real lightness. Even the horses that are loping right look plodding on the front ends. I've ridden a couple horses that occasionally would be super prancy and collected at times in their canter, and it was a really cool feeling to be going as slow as a brisk walk, but at the same time so lively. :D
 
#45 ·
When you are on a very natural horse, that low head set is natural...

Think of it this way, when you're riding a dressage horse, who has lots of collection and impulsion, when you give them rein where does their head go? Generally down (such as the free rein walk), many many dressage horse will also work at a trot and canter at lower head level if you allow them to have that rein.

Headset isn't made on a real natural horse, when I get my pleasure horses (even my reiners) engaged, using themselves, and lifting their shoulders their headset falls where it naturally wants to fall.

On my pleasure horses they have a lower neck set, at least thats what most breed for, and thus a lower headset comes naturally when you work them.

Look at our guy. This was in February, he was 23 months old, had less than a month of handling other than a bit as a weanling. He has no muscle and he still has a lower headset. I should get an updated video, but he carries his head even lower than that now...



We have done absolutely NO work asking him to put his head down in anyway, this is how he likes to carry himself. And as he gains more strength he holds it lower.

So to sum my point up, the head falls where it natural falls when you get a horse using themselves properly. Some WP horses are level, some of just below level and some are a touch above it.

I like my pleasure horses level or just below it. I don't like the ones that drag their nose in the dirt either. But those ones tend to be WAY on the forehand too.

These horses have tons of life, just becacuse their head is down doesn't mean a lot has been done to break their spirit. It's just natural for them based on how they are built.
 
#46 · (Edited)
I'm sorry but you just don't see mustangs or wild / natural / pastured horses looking anything like the videos that were posted.

Edit: I also know that WP horses (including the ones with the peanut-pusher thing going on) are not abused or maltreated and it takes a lot of dedication to the sport to become really good - just like any other equestrian discipline.

My question was just wondering where the inspiration came from and what the "purpose" or goal of that sort of posture and very slow gait came from because it contrasts so sharply with almost every other western sport.

I know you wouldn't have to break the spirit of a horse to get that sort of carriage but I was just wondering if that was the intended LOOK or if it was inspired by the sheer dominating of a large creature and making them slow and subservient or... if not what is?
 
#47 ·
I don't see the sharp contrast in the head in neck? Have you looked at reiners.

Originally they liked a lower headset because on the ranch a horse with his head in the air will catch the rope when roping cattle. Now WP has made it lower but still.

I don't think its to make the animal look dominated.

Like I said before and will continue saying, that low headset isn't pushed or put there. It falls there naturally for the horse.

And yes my pastured WP horse lopes around with his head that low and goes that slow. Yes he can run, but he can also lope very slowl.
 
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