It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand...

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It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand...

This is a discussion on It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand... within the Western Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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    04-08-2012, 06:40 PM
It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand...

If this thread is too controversial, the mods can lock it/delete it whenever they want.

Just saw that video recently going around and I still don't see the sense in this sort of "training technique", even as a WP trainer. If anyone can explain the mental and physical reasoning for trashing a horse's mouth in a positive light, then have at it.

Now I admit, if I have a horse who I have been working with softening for a few years and he gets stubborn on me or ducks his head, I might pull up on the inside rein a couple times to get his attention back. But this sort of stuff is just sad.

And the worst part is, everybody does it, but nobody ever comes out and says "to make a great futurity horse, you got to rip his mouth up and then rip his sides up". They sneak around the issue or hide in their training barns. Why don't more people come out and just call it like it is?

I apologize if this turns into a big flame fest. I actually really want to make a documentary when I graduate about the "inside world" of western horse showing, and what exactly is going on.
Northern and RoosHuman like this.
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    04-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Green Broke
I've seen worse in my own yard.
Not that this is good.
Do enough digging and you'll find stuff like this anywhere.
It's awful and wrong, but it happens.
I honestly could give two craps if my horse has her head up in the air, not collected at all, but with a soft mouth and happy. At least I know I didn't force anything like this on her.

I don't even know what that guy in trying to do...
Northern likes this.
    04-08-2012, 07:06 PM
Yeah, I agree. I know I'm really not going to get much out of this thread, but it makes me feel better about what I do. I may not make the big bucks, or have a bunch of World Championships, but I'm proud of my methods even if they don't win. And then I feel 10x better if I ever do win against these people... Oh well.
    04-08-2012, 07:39 PM
Green Broke
Yeah, there's nothing you can do about it but keep doing things the way they should be done. Even if your horse isn't the best.
    04-08-2012, 07:45 PM
Ok so when does the abbuse start? I see a rider who starts out soft with his hands and progresses up a bit as the horse does not respond to what he is being asked to do. I would bet this is a younger horse or one that was never trained properly and needs a bit of work giving to the bit. He is not only asking with the reins but watch the guys legs. He is asking for the horse to soften with his legs also. Again I see nothing overly wrong with this. I would like to see him ask a bit softer for a bit longer but past that it is what it is.
    04-08-2012, 08:05 PM
Green Broke
I'm not a fan of how he jerks on the horses face and pulls its chin right up to its chest, and continues to jerk. Ignore his feet and watch his hands. Then multiply that force by 3. Not very much fun.

And God only knows what kind of bit is in that horses mouth.
    04-08-2012, 08:13 PM
If you or I jerked around a horse like this, yes, it's nonsense. However this is a trainer & upper echelon horses, it produces results, that horse will never seen a kill pen & is worth more money than anything we will ever own. Sorry but that's the facts. It's what it takes to get to the top, period.
Ride likes this.
    04-08-2012, 08:18 PM
Green Broke
You do have a point, wares, but I still appreciate the guy that I watch train his horse and doesn't do that, and wins, much more than the guy I see "softening" his horse in that manner, and wins.
ThealovesLondon likes this.
    04-08-2012, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by QHriderKE    
I'm not a fan of how he jerks on the horses face and pulls its chin right up to its chest, and continues to jerk. Ignore his feet and watch his hands. Then multiply that force by 3. Not very much fun.

And God only knows what kind of bit is in that horses mouth.

First it does not matter if you are a fan or not. He is not being abbusive at all. You need to take it all in and the legs play a large role in what he is trying to accomplish with this horse. He is also at a show so it is fix it now or not at all before the class. Is this the best use of hands I have ever seen? No not in a long run. However what he is doing and what he is working on is what you will see with just about ever trainer. My horses do this and are worked this way. Once they are well finished it takes very little to get them to bridle up like that.
    04-08-2012, 08:30 PM
If that is what it takes to be a winner in reining, then I am glad I am not a part of that.

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