It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand... - Page 18 - The Horse Forum

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post #171 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muumi View Post
Moral of story: don't do things in public you wouldn't want on youtube. Its not the OP, or any subsequent commenters fault for giving an opinion on something, whatever that opinion may be.
So no reason to get like this. In today's world, youtube and the internet is a fact of life, so don't act surprised by it.
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No reason to get like what? You have not said word one this whole thread and NOW you decide to chime in?
OK-so you are saying that EVERY MINUTE you are riding you NEVER EVER "get after" a horse for not doing something THEY KNOW correctly? Really? So any one of us could watch you ride and never find a single minute (because that is how long this video is) when you disagree with your horse? You must be perfect then, and I find that hard to believe. Makes no difference to me what discipline you ride, how experienced you are, there is are times when we are working a horse trying to get them to do a maneuver they know.....but they refuse to do that day for whatever reason. Those of you who criticize without all the info-shame on you. THis should scare ALL of us. There are way too many crazed animal rights folks out there who think that an animals life is worth more than a humans. Keep that in mind. This was "schooling" at a show. Isn't that what schooling is? Correcting the horse and getting it right?

Welcome, Ride-the Youtube comments were horrible, and what was really bad was that none could comment without approval of the poster, so none could disagree. Certainly NOT freedom of speech.
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post #172 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ride View Post
Lets see - just watched the video again. At the beginning he pulls on the horse for a total of about 22 seconds. During that time, by the way, he was not constantly jerking - there were moments of pause and freedom given to the horse. And, if you know what you are looking at, you will see that the horse doesnt break over and give correctly at the beginning which is why he kept correcting the animal. Then he releases and smoothly asks for the spin. Corrects him again at about the 41 mark and continues off and on for about 5 seconds. Asks quietly again for the spin. Checks the horses response one more time after the second spin - for about three seconds. None of this was done from 'slack to snatch' as often seen with rough handed riders. He 'found' the horses mouth and then pulled - no snatching, not quick and rough. The timing and feel of this rider is superior. He is gentle with his spurs and effective with his legs or the horse would have flipped his nose UP instead of folding under. He does not have the horses mouth tied shut with a mouth closer of any kind. The horse opens his mouth a bit but doesnt desparately gape or struggle. There is no blood, no wild eyed fear or panic in the animal. The horse doesnt try to back away from the bit pressure. The horse folds up easily because the horses neck is put on to fold up easily - he is conformed that way. This man shows skill - not abuse. An entire video length of 70 seconds and the 'abuse' takes up about 30 seconds - and even that is not steady or unfair. You 'judges' out there - go out and ride a bit -wet some saddle blankets. Take your stop watch and set up a video camera to see how long you take to correct a horse. Bet it seems like you only pull for a second doesnt it? Why don't you video and then count the seconds - see what you learn about yourself and the real time it takes to get it across to the horse. Oh - and make sure you take that horse - make it a young green one - to a big show to do it. One that has lots of activity to distract him. See if he is as soft as you have him at home and responds as quickly. Hey - maybe you will get lucky and someone will video you so you don't have to get someone to do it for you. A stranger - perhaps one with an agenda who will then post you on a public forum or youtube with a title by your name or image calling you an abuser! Now THAT would be justice!
Well then seek out and shout at the person who filmed this clip and posted it on youtube... That would be the guilty party.
Everyone on here is just honestly commenting on what they are seeing: pro or con. Which is not a crime. And I would hate for anyone to stop questioning things, because some people would tell them that's wrong.
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post #173 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franknbeans View Post
No reason to get like what? You have not said word one this whole thread and NOW you decide to chime in?
OK-so you are saying that EVERY MINUTE you are riding you NEVER EVER "get after" a horse for not doing something THEY KNOW correctly? Really? So any one of us could watch you ride and never find a single minute (because that is how long this video is) when you disagree with your horse? You must be perfect then, and I find that hard to believe. Makes no difference to me what discipline you ride, how experienced you are, there is are times when we are working a horse trying to get them to do a maneuver they know.....but they refuse to do that day for whatever reason. Those of you who criticize without all the info-shame on you. THis should scare ALL of us. There are way too many crazed animal rights folks out there who think that an animals life is worth more than a humans. Keep that in mind. This was "schooling" at a show. Isn't that what schooling is? Correcting the horse and getting it right?

Welcome, Ride-the Youtube comments were horrible, and what was really bad was that none could comment without approval of the poster, so none could disagree. Certainly NOT freedom of speech.
Hey!! I've been following this thread legitimately! I think I even commented a few times up front!

I'm not perfect, and I accept in this day and age I can be shouted at for my weaknesses on youtube as much as the next dude. That is the world we live in.

All I'm saying is, don't bully the people on this forum for being concerned... They did not take this video and post it! Find THAT person and shout at them!!

Everyone here may have an opinion. Its a forum. That's the absolute beauty of it. Even me! Even if I haven't been involved enough for your satisfaction...
Let's not fight this on here... Its not really our fight.
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Last edited by muumi; 04-16-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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post #174 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 03:50 PM
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I think we should all be horrified that any random person can post something like this and not even have to identify themselves. I thought one of our basic rights was to face our accusers. This poor guy has been tried and found guilty by the court of public opinion because of someones' out of context video and accusations. That, to me is scary. I sure am glad they are not around when I have one of those
'come to Jesus" minutes with one of my animals.
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post #175 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muumi View Post
Well then seek out and shout at the person who filmed this clip and posted it on youtube... That would be the guilty party.
Everyone on here is just honestly commenting on what they are seeing: pro or con. Which is not a crime. And I would hate for anyone to stop questioning things, because some people would tell them that's wrong.
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Do you think that it is that easy? Youtube has a privacy policy that protects - that is both good and bad. In this case it is bad. It is not me in the video but I do know who it was and I know the person is not just good but great with horses - very kind. Correction is not wrong. No horse is trained by whispering no matter what the uninformed think. Animals correct animals so why is it suddenly wrong for humans to correct animals? Do we think that bits and spurs give 'comfort'? Are saddles inhumane? Where does it end? As for honest comments - those would have to be born of knowledge rather than uninformed judgement. That is why in the courts they call upon a 'jury of peers'. On Youtube we see judgement passed primarily by non horse people yet it has the power through the sheer force of visibility to endanger and damage. Why do you think I do not post there? Giving it life by posting on Youtube could cause the people related to this video even more grief. So I came here - easy to find lots of places that this video is being shown. This is the only place where there was some 'peer' activity rather than a bunch of wannabes with no knowledge. So I post and you come along and scorn me? Do you find it annoying that I am commenting on what I am seeing / reading? Do you see me as not having the right to comment and question? You tell ME to go seek and 'shout' at the person who posted it on youtube? Do you want ME to go away? How interesting and telling is that?
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post #176 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franknbeans View Post
I think we should all be horrified that any random person can post something like this and not even have to identify themselves. I thought one of our basic rights was to face our accusers. This poor guy has been tried and found guilty by the court of public opinion because of someones' out of context video and accusations. That, to me is scary. I sure am glad they are not around when I have one of those
'come to Jesus" minutes with one of my animals.
Yes it is scary. I would hate someone witnessing one of my moments with their bare eyes, nevermind a video camera

But that's life these days, I guess.

But I don't think that rider was found guilty on this forum, it was evenly spread and debated.

Maybe on youtube it was another story. I didn't go on there.
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post #177 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muumi View Post
Hey!! I've been following this thread legitimately! I think I even commented a few times up front!

I'm not perfect, and I accept in this day and age I can be shouted at for my weaknesses on youtube as much as the next dude. That is the world we live in.

All I'm saying is, don't bully the people on this forum for being concerned... They did not take this video and post it! Find THAT person and shout at them!!

Everyone here may have an opinion. Its a forum. That's the absolute beauty of it. Even me! Even if I haven't been involved enough for your satisfaction...
Let's not fight this on here... Its not really our fight.
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Okay - I get where you are coming from in certain ways, but to say I bullied someone by calling them out for bullying another is not exactly balanced.
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post #178 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ride View Post
Do you think that it is that easy? Youtube has a privacy policy that protects - that is both good and bad. In this case it is bad. It is not me in the video but I do know who it was and I know the person is not just good but great with horses - very kind. Correction is not wrong. No horse is trained by whispering no matter what the uninformed think. Animals correct animals so why is it suddenly wrong for humans to correct animals? Do we think that bits and spurs give 'comfort'? Are saddles inhumane? Where does it end? As for honest comments - those would have to be born of knowledge rather than uninformed judgement. That is why in the courts they call upon a 'jury of peers'. On Youtube we see judgement passed primarily by non horse people yet it has the power through the sheer force of visibility to endanger and damage. Why do you think I do not post there? Giving it life by posting on Youtube could cause the people related to this video even more grief. So I came here - easy to find lots of places that this video is being shown. This is the only place where there was some 'peer' activity rather than a bunch of wannabes with no knowledge. So I post and you come along and scorn me? Do you find it annoying that I am commenting on what I am seeing / reading? Do you see me as not having the right to comment and question? You tell ME to go seek and 'shout' at the person who posted it on youtube? Do you want ME to go away? How interesting and telling is that?
I don't want you to go away, and I do not scorn you at all!

I just really think the OP had pure intentions when posting this.

Prob just feeling a bit protective of the OP here, but I'm not denying you your opinion.

Why am I even 'fighting'?! I'm don't even feel that strongly about the video at all!
(Laughs at self)
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Last edited by muumi; 04-16-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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post #179 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 04:08 PM
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I think we all can agree that 70 seconds out of a schooling session can be taken out of context.

Do I think this is abuse? No

Do I think his timing and hands are superior? No
But neither are mine.

Do I think there are better ways to achieve what he was after? Yes
But there are different methods and different trainers for a reason, not all horses are the same and respond to the type of schooling or correction.

Sure it would be so much easier to put horses and personalities into one catagory but it doesn't work that way.

And why should anyone have hide the correction of a horse at a show or in public? Horses need to be corrected, they don't come out of the womb trained. Otherwise I would of bought four wheelers rather than horses.
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post #180 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ride View Post
Okay - I get where you are coming from in certain ways, but to say I bullied someone by calling them out for bullying another is not exactly balanced.
No, I apologise... It seems my presence right now on here is just stirring, and that's not my intention at all!

You see, its my birthday today, and I guess because of that I guess I felt I had this momentary power to resolve all issues and make good in the world, ha ha!

I will stop now, and leave this thread to you guys... I'm not very good at all this it seems.

Please just don't misunderstand my intentions here though. They are good.
(Leaves to go eat more cake)
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Last edited by muumi; 04-16-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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