It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand... - Page 20 - The Horse Forum

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post #191 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
This is not just for you but for all those who seem to think he is jurking or yanking.

How may reiners have you worked riden and or trained? How many truly finished horses have you been on?

I am watching this video as a reiner watching anouther reiner working a horse out of a problem. Look at is from that point of view and you may actually learn something.
I've seen reining trainers with incredibly soft hands and a directed seat that achieve the same goal. If you can come up with another term for what that man is doing with his hands, be my guest. It appears to me that it's the "trainer" who needs to be worked out of a problem. Both rider and horse seem green, and we all know that's not an ideal combination.
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post #192 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by AshleyCL View Post
He was pulling back with full force...jerking on both sides. You keep your opinion, and I'll have mine. I'm just surprised that horse let him stay seated.
Ok, and did you see before and after this 70 seconds? Do you ever correct your horse(s) or are they perfect butterfly and rainbow unicorns of some sort?

As much as you may think otherwise, there are times when horses need more pressure than some people are comfortable with. Again, I would ask you to watch how rough they are with each other, and rethink. We are 10% of their weight, on average. I can also say that, after talking to 4 people I personally know who were at that show (trainer and his assistants) who had riders competing with this rider-it was so memorable on the "abuse" scale they had no clue who I was talking about. Had this guy been actually doing something inappropriate, he would have been turned in at that show-not a MONTH later, on youboob. Take a look sometime at the suspended members list of the NRHA (the governing organization for this show), as NRHA has mentioned. It is an extensive list, and they do NOT take ACTUAL cause lightly. This WAS NOT actual abuse.
I also had a "moment" with mine last week, as we all have, and I will guarantee you that some unknowing person would have gasped. Did it correct a stubborn horse and get him to do what he knows? Yes. Will it possibly keep him from his "testy" behavior in the future? I sure hope so. We all have this moments that we have to get their attention and respect or we stand to be a stain in the arena. Period.
Oh-and I did have to back it up with a yank-I do not take that lightly, but sometimes you have to to get their attention and get them to do what they know how, but are being too distracted or stubborn to do.

Oh-and we all misspell, to correct spelling is just picky and being argumentative. You knew what was meant, right? So let it go, unless you are perfect.
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Last edited by franknbeans; 04-16-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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post #193 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AshleyCL View Post
I've seen reining trainers with incredibly soft hands and a directed seat that achieve the same goal. If you can come up with another term for what that man is doing with his hands, be my guest. It appears to me that it's the "trainer" who needs to be worked out of a problem. Both rider and horse seem green, and we all know that's not an ideal combination.
He was not a trainer, from my understanding, a rookie reiner of under three years.

I DON'T LEAD 'EM AND FEED 'EM, I RIDE 'EM AND SLIDE 'EM.

Last edited by COWCHICK77; 04-16-2012 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Edit: misread orginal post, I thought it was implied the rider was a trainer.
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post #194 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AshleyCL View Post
I've seen reining trainers with incredibly soft hands and a directed seat that achieve the same goal. If you can come up with another term for what that man is doing with his hands, be my guest. It appears to me that it's the "trainer" who needs to be worked out of a problem. Both rider and horse seem green, and we all know that's not an ideal combination.
And how do you think they got that way? Butterfly kisses? You have to escalate the pressure until you get a result. Is it not possible that there a was escalation PRIOR to the 70 seconds shown? I will guarantee you that(as an example) I tried everything I knew with mine last week.....but until I used my spur to get him to respect my leg and rein-he was having none of it. Afterwards-he was super soft. Picture perfect. He learned that when I say turn, he needs to TURN NOW! Oh-and along the way-yes, I had to reinforce my leg with a yank on the reins. I did not have to do it much. He got the message. Do I take that lightly-no, but I now know how to make him do what he knows when he is being a butt.
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post #195 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by franknbeans View Post
And how do you think they got that way? Butterfly kisses? You have to escalate the pressure until you get a result. Is it not possible that there a was escalation PRIOR to the 70 seconds shown? I will guarantee you that(as an example) I tried everything I knew with mine last week.....but until I used my spur to get him to respect my leg and rein-he was having none of it. Afterwards-he was super soft. Picture perfect. He learned that when I say turn, he needs to TURN NOW! Oh-and along the way-yes, I had to reinforce my leg with a yank on the reins. I did not have to do it much. He got the message. Do I take that lightly-no, but I now know how to make him do what he knows when he is being a butt.
Yes, I use butterfly kisses. And that's your method...go for it. I would not be as heavy handed...I'm quite aware of how pressure and reinforcements work and I use them as well, just not in that manner. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. All there is to it.
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post #196 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AshleyCL View Post
I've seen reining trainers with incredibly soft hands and a directed seat that achieve the same goal. If you can come up with another term for what that man is doing with his hands, be my guest. It appears to me that it's the "trainer" who needs to be worked out of a problem. Both rider and horse seem green, and we all know that's not an ideal combination.
Yes there are many many reining trainers who have very soft hands however that is the key work TRAINER which this guy is not. He is a Rookie/non Pro reiner. You know that person who actually works at anouther job to afford to be able to own, ride, and show a horse.

That was very fare from yanking or snatching at the bit. He was making contact then pulling on the reins to get a desired affect.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
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post #197 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AshleyCL View Post
Yes, I use butterfly kisses. And that's your method...go for it. I would not be as heavy handed...I'm quite aware of how pressure and reinforcements work and I use them as well, just not in that manner. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. All there is to it.
I'd love to see videos of the end result of a horse you have trained start to finish with these "butterfly kisses". Care to put up or shut up....?
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Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #198 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 08:26 PM
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We keep asking for videos...noone is taking us up on it......hmmm.

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post #199 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post
I'd love to see videos of the end result of a horse you have trained start to finish with these "butterfly kisses". Care to put up or shut up....?
Jesus H.
I re-quoted the butterfly kisses as sarcasm. I haven't trained a horse start to finish because I, unlike this amateur, know my limits. Never said I have. My horse has his faults, like any other, and I handle it with strength and firmness. I do not use a heavy hand in my horse's mouth to provide a correction because that is MY way. It's so nice to know you can post an opinion on here without getting bombarded by top professionals who know absolutely everything.
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post #200 of 296 Old 04-16-2012, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by franknbeans View Post
We keep asking for videos...noone is taking us up on it......hmmm.
I'll take you up on it. I'm getting a lesson from someone I give lessons to. Try to find fault if you can.

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