It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand... - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 09:48 PM
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I do not believe he used his hands as I would have but it certainly isn't what I call "abuse".

Hell I could probably watch every rider at the World Equestrian Games and find SOMETHING I could bitch incessantly about. Then I could post a video about it on a forum if I wanted so everyone else could bitch about it with me! Then suddenly that rider becomes unpopular with a whole bunch of pixel people and is dubbed 'abusive'. (OP, not saying you're complaining, just bringing up a point)

When you guys were learning to ride your sport how many things did you do wrong? Were you all born winners? Were you all born with the infinite knowledge of how EXACTLY to use your hands and when exactly to use them? Were you all instantly good at developing a horse up into the bridle? If you say you were then you're lying.

I don't believe this man uses his hands perfectly but it is not abusive. The horse's mouth isn't bleeding, his jaw didn't detach from his face, his neck didn't break, and I bet none of his teeth fell out either!

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #22 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post
When you guys were learning to ride your sport how many things did you do wrong?
Please do not insult our collective intelligence by trying to even insinuate that what we saw on that video was done accidentally or out of ignorance.
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post #23 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 10:03 PM
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Please do not insult our collective intelligence by trying to even insinuate that what we saw on that video was done accidentally or out of ignorance.
I fail to see the insult you seem to think I have pushed upon you.

When all of us were learning to ride whatever sport we chose we used methods that we probably would not have used after we learned the proper way. If he did not do this out of ignorance for lack of knowledge of a better method, are you saying he used that method to be deliberately "abusive" (As the video title says) to the horse?
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Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #24 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mildot View Post
Please do not insult our collective intelligence by trying to even insinuate that what we saw on that video was done accidentally or out of ignorance.

So you are a mind reader? You know everything that you need to know that went on that day on that horse with that rider from a 70 second video? Then you are better then I. I am not going to judge that person. If that was Shawn then maybe but then I would want to know why he was doing what he was doing.

Based on what I see and what I know from a lot of years riding reining horses I have a fairly good idea of the problems this guy was having with this horse. Is he the lightest handed person I have ever seen on a horse? No but he is not by any means the harshed haned person either.

My problem with all this is that this video was taken about 2 months ago. NRHA has policies on place for this type of thing. If the person who posted this on UTube thinks this was so bad then why did they not go to the show secritarie that day and show them or send it to NRHA??

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post #25 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 10:23 PM
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I see much worse then that at my local speed shows. People that think they are "big wigs" run their horses into a barrel and then haul on the horses mouth, backing it 30 feet and jerking on the mouth VERY HARD back and forth on each side of the bit. These are no light bits either, they are harsher gag bits with rawhide nosebands. Some horses also have a "war bonnet" or cable tiedown which is in my opinion, the harshest tiedown ever made. It's steel cabel covered in a plastic overlay for crimeny's sake and when they jerk on the horses mouth, their head snaps up.

There's nothing you can do but be disgusted by those types of people. This particular rider isn't the softest handed by any means, but given the information that nrhareiner gave about his inexperience in reining horses, I can see where it stems from. Would I treat my horses like that? No, I don't need to. They've been given a proper foundation that allows me not to do that. I have very soft hands as well. But, I do not consider that "abuse" by any means. Like I said, I've seen much much worse. This particular horse seems to be responding very well actually.

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post #26 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post
are you saying he used that method to be deliberately "abusive" (As the video title says) to the horse?
Yes I am
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post #27 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
So you are a mind reader? You know everything that you need to know that went on that day on that horse with that rider from a 70 second video? Then you are better then I. I am not going to judge that person. If that was Shawn then maybe but then I would want to know why he was doing what he was doing.

Based on what I see and what I know from a lot of years riding reining horses I have a fairly good idea of the problems this guy was having with this horse. Is he the lightest handed person I have ever seen on a horse? No but he is not by any means the harshed haned person either.

My problem with all this is that this video was taken about 2 months ago. NRHA has policies on place for this type of thing. If the person who posted this on UTube thinks this was so bad then why did they not go to the show secritarie that day and show them or send it to NRHA??
I'm not going to debate this any more. It is obvious that our definitions of acceptable treatment of a horse differ far too much.

I'm just happy to not be associated with anything resembling a group of people who think yanking on a horse's mouth is an acceptable training or correction technique.
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post #28 of 296 Old 04-08-2012, 10:41 PM
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I wouldn't even remotely call that "yanking" :roll:

Certainly was far from SOFT contact, but that is not by ANY means "yanking".

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #29 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLaPorte432 View Post
I see much worse then that at my local speed shows. People that think they are "big wigs" run their horses into a barrel and then haul on the horses mouth, backing it 30 feet and jerking on the mouth VERY HARD back and forth on each side of the bit. These are no light bits either, they are harsher gag bits with rawhide nosebands. Some horses also have a "war bonnet" or cable tiedown which is in my opinion, the harshest tiedown ever made. It's steel cabel covered in a plastic overlay for crimeny's sake and when they jerk on the horses mouth, their head snaps up.
I've seen that stuff too... except in the ranching community with all kinds of bits.

My dad, just yesterday, was riding his mare in a hack, and on the sides of her face where the hack makes contact, the hair was beginning to be rubbed off.

It's very wrong, I've tried talking to him, my mom has tried, but it's just how he wants it, so whatever. I gave up, and made a rule that he can't touch my horses.

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post #30 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post
I wouldn't even remotely call that "yanking" :roll:

Certainly was far from SOFT contact, but that is not by ANY means "yanking".
It looked like yanking to me. It looked very harsh to me. I would never want to intentionally do that to a horse. Have I made mistakes? Sure. Do I occasionally catch one of my horse in the mouth if they trip or spook, yes. Do I on purpose jerk their chin to their chest? No way! I guess that's why I trail ride. I can't imagine what that horse was doing that so justified jerking on it's face like that. That would be harsh even in a simple snaffle.

I have always seen western riders "bump" the bit. A pull and release. This guy is see-sawing in a jerky fashion. I didn't think see-sawing was ever acceptable technique. Is it? And all this time I've just been fluttering the reins with my fingers to ask them to soften up.

I guess that explains why a lot of people seem to think curb bits are harsh. Well, YEAH, if you use them like that they are.
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