It's this kind of stuff that I just don't understand... - Page 4 - The Horse Forum

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post #31 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 12:29 AM
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Maybe not as far as abuse, but this is what makes unhappy horses.

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post #32 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 09:19 AM
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Keep in mind you're gudgeing a technique by a person with limited experience who is doing poorly. Remember your judging something off a 70 sec.clip posted on youtube with no reference before or after
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post #33 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 09:27 AM
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I tried watching the video several times, my internet is slow so the video is choppy for me.

If they showed a longer video showing the whole warm-up/schooling session I think it would be easier to evaluate. I will say the horse is obviously not scared. I am not condoning the practice of knocking the face down but I do it differently and it is way more effective for me. I prefer to hold the face and use my legs. If that horse is leaning on the bit it usually means he is stuck out or stiff somewhere behind the bit. I will bump one off if he gets a little pushy when I drive him over but I have never been a user of see-sawing.

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post #34 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 09:51 AM
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See I do not THINK he ment to actually see-saw with the bit. As that is not correct. However what he trying to do is valid and works well. He is just to quick with his hands past the first few seconds and is doing a bit too much. I can see in the horses turns why he THINKS he needs to be doing this. However since I can not see the horses feet I can only go on what little I can see.
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post #35 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 09:57 AM
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I know how to ASK a horse to accept the bit. And even with a snaffle and direct contact the only hand action involved is a momentary tightening of the fist AFTER the horse goes in front of the legs. There is more finesse to it than that, but that's the general idea behind a half halt.

With a curb, whose leverage amplifies anything you with your hands, the hands should do even less.

The tool on top of that horse is doing nothing that in any way shape or form can be construed as driving the horse into the bit so that the horse learns to accept the bit.

All I see is brutality to FORCE the horse into that prized headset than so many in the western show world seem to have to have.

The horse is clearly in distress, gaping its mouth open and avoiding contact first behind the vertical and then above.

I don't give a **** what went on before or after. Some things are wrong prima facie and need no other explanation.
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post #36 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 10:00 AM
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And if what this guy is doing is just "slightly" wrong, then reining does not belong alongside other legitimate equine sports under the FEI.
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post #37 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mildot View Post
And if what this guy is doing is just "slightly" wrong, then reining does not belong alongside other legitimate equine sports under the FEI.
Well that's just a load of crap. Your telling me that EVERY trainer in FEI level sports has NEVER done anything similar to this to get a horse to respond. How can you make such a bold statement when you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at a trainers barn? There are many things I have seen in show jumping and dressage that are completely unacceptable in my opinion and are far worse then this. Get off your high horse and realize that there are trainers, even at top level, that will cheat their way through training to get the desired response.

This particular trainer is green in the reining world. Not every reining trainer treats horses like this.

And I guarantee your not prefect. Noone is.

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post #38 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 10:51 AM
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Well that's just a load of crap. Your telling me that EVERY trainer in FEI level sports has NEVER done anything similar to this to get a horse to respond. How can you make such a bold statement when you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at a trainers barn? There are many things I have seen in show jumping and dressage that are completely unacceptable in my opinion and are far worse then this. Get off your high horse and realize that there are trainers, even at top level, that will cheat their way through training to get the desired response.

This particular trainer is green in the reining world. Not every reining trainer treats horses like this.

And I guarantee your not prefect. Noone is.
A) Reading between the lines of nrhareiner's posts leads me to believe that what this guy is doing is considered by reiners to be just "slightly" wrong. There is certainly no flat out condemnation of the brutality I saw there.

B) What goes on behind someone's barn is not the issue. The issue is what a discipline's governing body will accept. What I saw there, as well as many other abusive practices, is not acceptable to the FEI or USEF.
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post #39 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mildot View Post
A) Reading between the lines of nrhareiner's posts leads me to believe that what this guy is doing is considered by reiners to be just "slightly" wrong. There is certainly no flat out condemnation of the brutality I saw there.

B) What goes on behind someone's barn is not the issue. The issue is what a discipline's governing body will accept. What I saw there, as well as many other abusive practices, is not acceptable to the FEI or USEF.
Was this at a show, or was this at at training barn? This is a short clip. I bet jumpers to just as bad of stuff. And there can't be people watching every part of a show or arenas or anything. I hate is when people assume just because one person everyone does stuff wrong.
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post #40 of 296 Old 04-09-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
See I do not THINK he ment to actually see-saw with the bit. As that is not correct. However what he trying to do is valid and works well. He is just to quick with his hands past the first few seconds and is doing a bit too much. I can see in the horses turns why he THINKS he needs to be doing this. However since I can not see the horses feet I can only go on what little I can see.

The quickness of his hands and the see-sawing is what makes it look ugly.

Just curious if we are seeing the same thing....

To me the horse looks like he leaning on the bit, and getting heavy and a little sprawled out in the front. Like you said, can't see his feet and the other horses crossing in front of the camera, so it's hard to tell. He doesn't appear to be planting his his pivot foot(I realize they can pick it up and put it down) but he almost looks like he might be traveling just a tad or swapping ends a little. One direction is worse than the other, can't remember which...
What do you see?

I DON'T LEAD 'EM AND FEED 'EM, I RIDE 'EM AND SLIDE 'EM.
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