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Question on western pleasure bred horses

This is a discussion on Question on western pleasure bred horses within the Western Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Western pleasure bilt horse
  • Pleasure cow bred horse

 
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    10-01-2009, 11:04 PM
  #21
Weanling
Apparently I opened a can of worms. Sorry. This is like a field vs. bench lab debate. I have learned from it though, thanks.
     
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    10-01-2009, 11:45 PM
  #22
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQHA13    
Western Bred Pleasure horses are usually bred to have a lower headset, but with training the headset is even lower. It has no purpose other than looks for the show ring. The horses are not collected and could not do any other task with this headset. It couldn't cut cows, rein, or any other of the western disciplines where you see that the horses head is generally above or at wither height. English Pleasure has a similar style, a stretched out horse that is in no way collected and could not jump, do dressage, or even cross country. I personally think that both English and western pleasure are hideous.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ times 923048102394823049203.

English and Western pleasure are hideous to me. I could never show in either. I like my horse to be beautifully collected and supple, not stretched out across the ground, moving at 0.0349 miles an hour.
     
    10-02-2009, 01:39 AM
  #23
Showing
Haley, your horse does look natural and nicely extended. It is the ones who DO force the horse into a headset they are not built for an force them to move slower than they should creating that horrible choppy, lame looking gait that give everyone else a bad rap. Like I said, they are getting better but still not where I would like to see them personally. It has also always seemed to me that the english pleasure horses generally seem a bit more natural than the western pleasure horses, to my eyes anyway. I don't know.

It is really a matter of personal preferance I guess. Since I do more ranch type work, I like to have a horse who's head is up a little and they can see for long distances. I can't count how many times my horse has seen cattle that I missed. For the show ring, it's fine to carry it really low so long as it isn't uncomfortable or damaging to the horse but on the ranch, a horse with that carriage wouldn't be good for much. My ideal WP horse (if he were a little more extended) would look like this:


But this mare is carrying herself too high and it doesn't look natural
     
    10-02-2009, 01:52 AM
  #24
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudsMystique    
Why are reiners almost as bad? I'm not disagreeing - I'm just curious because I haven't heard anything that bad about them.
No, it just seems to be the fad right now for the reining horses to have a headset that is both lower and much more tucked than it should be with their nose way behind the vertical. Let me see if I can find a vid.

     
    10-02-2009, 02:58 AM
  #25
Weanling
My mare isn't even bred to be a HUS horse (she's only 15.1hh, though she doesn't look it).. her old owner told me she thought she'd never be able to do it. We just started for fun this year and to everyone's surprise she's taken to it quite well. Her real forte' is Trail anyway, which is better than any rail class in my oppinion! Haha.

I was at a Paint show last weekend and not a single horse there was 4 beating. Paint seams to have changed a lot faster than QH though. The last QH show I was at (August), quite a few of those horses looked unnatural and lame. At the APHA show though, every single horse had a great cadenced lope with a deeep hock. Not the 4 beating head bobbing thing that was in a few years ago.

Now, I agree with you - that's the frame I like on pleasure horses too. Poll level with withers, nose slightly outside of the verticle, and the hind end engaged is important too. I can't stand seeing horses trailing their hind end dragging themselves around on their front end. Not a very pretty picture.

I've had people, who don't even like WP comment on how natural and "true" my mare's jog is, how it actually looks like a pleasure to ride and she doesn't look like she's lame and half walking half jogging. Which is nice to hear obviously, and quite true too. I just like it when I can hopefully maybe change some peoples minds about WP and Pleasure horses. :]

Yeah, sorry about that. I just get mad when people basically say because I have a pleasure horse she MUST be un-natural and she MUST be lame and she doesn't know how to properly collect and use herself.
     
    10-02-2009, 08:51 AM
  #26
Weanling
Ya know what...I love western pleasure. I've ridden dozens of diciplines and trained in several events and Western pleasure is, by far, one of the most technical and difficult to teach.

Many of those who oppose it either don't know about it or don't know about the leaps and bounds that it has come in the passed few years. It's a beautiful dicipline.

I had the opportunity to ride with a WP trainer and train my own horse for it.
The horse I trained for it was all cow bred, but was built and moved like a pleasure horse. Not once in her training did the trainer mention head carriage. It was all and only about collection and forming the muscles to do so consistantly. Counter arcing and maintaining cadence...

Pleasure horse build isnt about having your horse's nose hang as low as it can. It's all about the horse being comfortable and natural in a relaxed head carriage while still being able to maintain an incredible amount of collection.
It is... whether many of you think so or not... Dressage on a loose rein.

Here's the filly, with only a short time in pleasure training. Excuse the attire-When it's cold... I dress comfy.


doc delibero video by mrgunsmokeluver - Photobucket
Point being, I never asked her to drop her head. Every time I touched the reins, it was to get her shoulder up. She was a lazy horse and had days where she wanted you to hold her up.

This horse could do more than pleasure. She could also run barrels...eventually being able to clock 2D times before I stopped her training.

She also had an innate desire to work a cow.

But then, on the other end, I rode another cow bred horse who simple was uncomfortable when I asked him to collect and lower his head carriage. It's easy for some horses and others, it's not. The one who had a hard time collecting, was also a 1D/2D barrel horse.
     
    10-02-2009, 06:59 PM
  #27
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaRide    
People who don't know a lot about western pleasure horses are the ones to put all the attention on the head carriage. When you start to learn about what truly makes a western pleasure horse, you start looking at the horse's legs, shoulders, hip, and back before you ever look at where the head is.

Very well said
     
    10-06-2009, 03:52 AM
  #28
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
But this mare is carrying herself too high and it doesn't look natural
I disagree. She looks like she's going somewhere and has something to do when she gets there. I like both of them but if I got to choose I would pick this mare to ride over the other.
     
    10-06-2009, 10:50 AM
  #29
Showing
No, It's not that it doesn't look natural for a horse, its that it doesn't look natural for her. She normally had a very level head carriage so I don't know if she got spooked by the camera man or the flash but that was not how she would normally carry her head. I love how extended her legs are though.

But of course, this pic was taken in the 70's, before the peanut roller look really took off.
     
    10-07-2009, 12:06 AM
  #30
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaRide    
People who don't know a lot about western pleasure horses are the ones to put all the attention on the head carriage. When you start to learn about what truly makes a western pleasure horse, you start looking at the horse's legs, shoulders, hip, and back before you ever look at where the head is.
I second this!! ^^^
     

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