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Tie downs and such

This is a discussion on Tie downs and such within the Western Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Arabian horse rodeo
  • How to put a tie down on a horse

 
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    12-07-2009, 09:10 PM
  #81
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
A tiedown does nothing that good horsemanship and collection can't do. If people were not ignorant of good horsemanship there would be no reason for tiedowns. Why do barrel horses need tiedowns to run a pattern but not reining horses? Training and horseemanship is the answer. If you need your tiedown because your horses head comes up when you do fast work then you should quit doing fast work untill you get your horse better trained and learn to balance ofrf the reins. If you want to know why your horse needs a tiedaown of throws it's head, put both hands on your saddlehorn and look straight down. Your hands are the reason.
Because a reining horse is not turning around a barrel at Mock 4. Properly trained barrel horses do not toss their head up...they "pop" their head forward as they turn, and the tie down helps as a brace so they can use as leverage to help spin their hind end around.
     
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    12-07-2009, 10:21 PM
  #82
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_spot    
^ Exactly. Don't have any riding pics on this computer - But here is Wildey standing and you can see how loose the martingale is. Esepcially on Arabvs - They are naturally inclined to flip that head!
A running martingale is a training tool. I don't use one but I'm not opposed to it. As far as high-end barrel horses, I have little experience with them. Most people that chase barrels are not high level competitors and are just dragging thier horses around the pattern. As a boy I showed in 4-h and part of that was running barrels. I beat many girls half my size on fancy barrel horses because I could ride my horse and he was very broke. He deffinatly was not fast. We also did pole bending and in two years we never failed to place and never knocked over a pole because he could change leads and I could ride him right where I wanted him.
     
    12-07-2009, 10:33 PM
  #83
Weanling
Horse are different.
You may need different tack, ect. For different horses..

I also know a quarter horse who ran barrels, and didn't seem very fast at all, but he went smoothly through the pattern, and placed everytime with 16,17+ seconds. Like I said all horses are different in many many ways.
     
    12-07-2009, 11:34 PM
  #84
Weanling
Sorry, I should clarify my last post.
Ideally you want your horse to be able to use his hind end to propel himself around the barrel. However, in younger horses, or horses who (like those that find it hard to switch leads, no matter how much you school them) are more forward going around barrels, is when the tie down comes into play, and helps the horse brace around the barrel.

I didn't mean that it is ideal for a barrel horse to brace, but the tie down is their in the event that the horse needs it.

I personally don't use the Tie down when practicing or training for barrels, and only use in in competition, as the runs are that much faster, and the horse is that much more keyed up.

I do think there is a time and place for the tie down, as is for spurs, crops, running martingales, german martingales, leverage bits, flashes etc etc.

There are many training aids that are over used/abused, and as people here say used as a crutch...however that is not to say that someone who uses one in specific situations is a bad horse person and can't ride. Of course in some instances this holds true. But when they have expelled all other options, these artificial aids can make their riding experience a more enjoyable one.
     
    12-08-2009, 01:50 AM
  #85
Green Broke
See, here's the thing. I never once said a negative thing about people who use tie downs, just plain facts.

The people who have argued with me over this have each described exactly what I am talking about with their own situations.

Just because I do not sugar coat it or add any extra fluff, people keep getting their panties in a twist thinking I an calling them bad riders, when in fact I am just saying that they need a tie down to ride more happily because of whatever situation. I am not being rude or mean, just blunt and no nonsense about it.

A note on barrel racing and tiedowns-

**And If a young horse needs a tie down and has to use it to propel himself with his front end, he shouldn't be racing yet, he should be at home in the arena training until he can use his rear to move.

A horse should not brace around a barrel, they should arc slightly, lift the ribcage and shift their weight to take them around. This can only be done with a proper rate before even getting to a barrel, or you do indeed get the horse bracing because he has not slowed enough to be able to manuver properly.

This is a case of speed before precision and balance. This is a case of using a tie down where training is needed instead. And a perfect example of what everyone has been trying to tell you who desperately defend your tiedowns, especially when you barrel.

If your horse was properly trained you would not need a tie down because they are so amped, you might want to refer to the barrel racers thread in the western riding section for some tips (hehe I posted there too... jsut for you).
     
    12-08-2009, 03:35 AM
  #86
Trained
Quote:
when in fact I am just saying that they need a tie down to ride more happily because of whatever situation.
BUT I DON'T. Do you not understand this? I have stated it many times now.
     
    12-08-2009, 03:36 AM
  #87
Trained
Me putting a martingale on for other riders is the EXACT situation of putting grass reins on a pony for a kid to ride.
     
    12-08-2009, 06:54 AM
  #88
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeysuga    
See, here's the thing. I never once said a negative thing about people who use tie downs, just plain facts.
Where are these facts? I've seen opinions, yes, but no facts.

Opinions...

Quote:
Bandy words all you like, a tie down is a crutch and a cover up. PERIOD.
Quote:
Exactly what I am saying guys, you don't have the control necessary to ride without it. The horse isn't trained enough to not need one and the rider feels more comfortable with it on. Exactly what I was saying.
Have you seen the horses in question? Or is it your "educated opinion" again?

Quote:
Actually, yes you are doing wrong by using one to prevent your horse from tossing its head. Head tossing is usually a sign of anxiety or physical discomfort. They are not just being stubborn, they need to be trained better, stubbornness has nothing to do with head tossing.
Opinion again, and have you worked with arabs? They hold their head up as breed characteristic, so yes when excited they will bring it up.

Quote:
Tiedowns, just like every other piece of equipment are very good training tools when used in the proper situation.
So what is the "proper situation, if wild_spot's isn't?

Quote:
*Tiedowns are not training equipment. They will not teach a horse anything but to lean into them and be heavy on the forehand.*
Contradiction much?
     
    12-08-2009, 07:30 AM
  #89
Green Broke
*sighs* I'm still not hearing any tips on how to avoid the Arab head from tipping up when galloping. Here are some pics if you're not quite convinced - it's their natural headset, and I'd love to avoid the use of a tiedown if someone would be wonderful enough to give some tips on how to prevent this in Arabian horses.

Pics of Zierra in the pasture:





I don't know how many people have ridden Arabs, but trying to get a good stop on them from a full gallop is a little difficult when they get that excited. I suppose some reining work could help her, but I'm sadly lacking in the funds necessary to hire a trainer to help me with that. I've been self taught virtually my entire life. The gallop is the only time I have issues, and even then, I CAN stop her with little to no problems. It just takes a few strides extra of her flipping her nose before she goes "Fine, if you say so, I guess the fun can end."
     
    12-08-2009, 07:53 AM
  #90
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj    
*sighs* I'm still not hearing any tips on how to avoid the Arab head from tipping up when galloping. Here are some pics if you're not quite convinced - it's their natural headset, and I'd love to avoid the use of a tiedown if someone would be wonderful enough to give some tips on how to prevent this in Arabian horses.
TO avoid any horses head from tipping up when galloping there are a few things you can do. Make sure that your horse is breaking softly at the poll at the walk trot and canter. Realize that the brace you are seeing at the gallop is there at the slower gaits it's just not as noticable. Work on getting better stops at slower gaits and this will create better stops at higher speeds. By better I mean softer and with the proper frame (broken at the poll and stopping on the hindquarters). Just because a horse gallops in the pature with it's head in the air doesn't mean they should do so under saddle. A horse in the pasture is only caring its own wieght so the need for collection is minimized. When a rider is added the horse needs to round it's back and shift some wieght to the hindquarters to compensate for the rider this can't happen without breaking at the poll (vertical flexion).
     

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