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Western Dressage

13K views 64 replies 15 participants last post by  Eileen 
#1 ·
What are your thoughts on starting dressage for western riders. All I know is that people are talking about starting this up. They do not have a website yet but that is in the works.

International Federation of Western Dressage in the United States we will inspire, encourage interest in, and regulate Western competition by ensuring the safety and well-being of horses, regardless of value or competitive level; ensure the enforcement of fair and equitable rules and procedures up to and including the inclusion for the Olympic Games; and, endeavor to advance the level of horsemanship internationally.

Our mission is to govern the Western Dressage in compliance with the laws of the United States and the Constitution and Bylaws of the United States Olympic Committee (USOC), and in addition, to provide vision and leadership to Western Dressage in the United States, to promote the pursuit of excellence in Western Dressage from junior and grass roots programs to international Western Dressage competitions. To accomplish this mission, our members and staff, working together will:

1) Hold an international competition in the U.S. or to sponsor U.S. amateur athletes to compete in international competition outside the U.S. and determine whether to grant such sanction.

2) Work together with the FEI in its mission to protect competition horses from any form of abuse, extend the universality of equestrian sport, and promote its visibility to the public.

(3) Protect and support the welfare of horses by inspecting, monitoring and testing to deter use of forbidden substances and other cruel, unsafe and/or unsportsmanlike practices and by adopting and enforcing rules to prohibit such practices.

4) Provide a body of rules with which to govern Western Dressage at the national level, along with an effective means of enforcing them, and a judicial process that is fair to competitors while providing for optimum integrity within the sport.

5) Encourage and support amateur athletic sports programs for disabled and/or handicapped individuals and the participation of disabled and/or handicapped individuals in amateur athletic activity, including, where feasible, the expansion of opportunities for meaningful participation by disabled and/or handicapped individuals in programs of athletic competition for able-bodied individuals.

6) Develop interest and participation in Western Dressage throughout the United States and work with affiliate associations, breed and discipline organizations, and other organizations to encourage participation.

7) Coordinate the calendar of competitions to assure FEI level competitive opportunities domestically; enhance the level of national competition in all FEI Western Dressage and provide for varying levels of regional and national competition to increase the breadth and depth of the sport throughout the country.

8) Train and license officials.

9) Establish national goals and encourage attainment of those goals.

10) Provide equitable support and encouragement for participation by women and minorities.
 
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#2 ·
Preliminary Guidelines for Western Dressage

  1. Western Dressage is defined as training and developing the Western rider and horse to improve themselves as individuals and as partners through the use and discipline of dressage. By using classical Dressage principles the Western Dressage rider improves cadence, balance and carriage of the horse.
  2. The Western Dressage horse becomes more supple and flexible as it moves up the levels of Western Dressage working more off its hindquarters allowing for increasing lightness of the forehand and encouraging a natural head carriage. There are a few points of difference between Western Dressage and regular Dressage, most arising from the use of Western tack. The description of the gaits is virtually identical but the Western Dressage horse must maintain “ridability” for the rider in a Western saddle. The rider’s position will also be somewhat different from that of a regular Dressage rider because of the Western saddle. The use of hands will appear somewhat different because of the Western bit; the Western Dressage horse should be “working on and accepting the bit”.
  3. The following comments are intended to assist the Dressage judge:
  4. GAITS: Walk: A gait of “four-time”. The horse, while remaining on the bit walks energetically but calmly with even and determined steps. Upon extension, the horse covers as much ground as possible without losing regularity of steps; in collection, the horse moves resolutely forward with shorter yet regular strides showing self carriage. No mixing of gaits. Jog/Trot: A slow steady, two-beat trot with engagement and impulsion from the rear with a lesser need to cover more ground than at the Trot. No mixing of gaits. Mixing of gaits refers to patterns of foot movements/footfalls that are not true to the Walk,
  5. Jog/Trot or Lope. While the need for extreme suspension and thrust is not required, the movement should be elastic with lift. The horse should be energetic and supple and always move without hesitation demonstrating relaxation of back, engagement of the hindquarters while remaining on the bit. As horse develops, and upon extension, will lengthen his steps. Upon collection, hocks are well engaged with energetic impulsion enabling the shoulders to move with lighter ease. Because the reins on a curb bit are held alike and in one hand, guiding the horse must be through the seat of the rider and the subtle use of his leg(s); the horse’s body must follow the path of the movement.
  6. Lope: A gait of “three-time”. The lope is light, cadenced with regular strides while remaining on the bit. Upon extension, the horse goes with free, light, balanced, moderately extended and balanced strides. With collection, the stride is shorter and there is more engagement of the hindquarters with more lightness of the forehand. No mixing of gaits.
  7. BASIC POSITION: The stirrup should be just short enough to allow heels to be lower than toes. Body should appear comfortable, relaxed, and flexible. Feet should be placed in the stirrups with the weight on the ball of the foot. Consideration, however, should be given to the width of the stirrups, which vary on Western saddles. If stirrups are wide, the foot may have the appearance of being home when, in reality, the weight is being properly carried on the ball of the foot.
  8. All movements should be obtained without apparent effort of the rider. He should be well balanced with his loins and hips supple, thighs and legs steady and well stretched downward. The upper part of the body should be easy, free, and erect. The seat, as well as the hands and legs, is of great importance in Western Dressage. The rider who understands how to contract and relax his loin muscles at the right moment is able to influence his horse correctly.
  9. USE OF HANDS One Hand - In repose, arms are in a straight line with body, and the one holding the reins is bent at the elbow. Only one hand is to be used for reining and hands shall not be changed. Hand to be around reins. When ends of split reins fall on near side, one finger between the reins is permitted. When using romal or when ends of split reins are held in hand not used for reining, no finger is allowed between the reins. Rider may hold romal or end of split reins to keep from swinging and to adjust the position of reins, provided there are at least 16 inches of rein between the hands. If a romal is used, hands are to be above the horn and as near to it as possible. Bracing against horn or coiled riata will be penalized.
  10. Two Hands – Hands should be low and close together without touching each other or the horse, and with the thumb as the highest point. The elbows and arms should be close to the body, forming a reasonably straight line from the rider’s elbow to the horse’s mouth enabling the rider to follow the movements of the horse smoothly and freely and to apply his aids imperceptibly. This is the only position that makes it possible for the rider to school his horse progressively and correctly.
  11. “ON THE BIT” AND HEAD CARRIAGE Western Dressage horses are not shown with a hanging loop rein; the rider has a "light" contact with the horse's mouth. The horse must show acceptance of the bit with a quiet mouth and a willingness to maintain light but steady contact with no resistance. The seat and legs ride the horse forward into a "receiving" hand. The horse must take the contact on the hand, not the rider taking the contact on the horse. The use of hands on reins will actually vary from horse to horse depending on their level of "finish" but "constant bumping of the bit" and "a gaping mouth" are considered major faults. The emphasis is on a quiet mouth with head carriage that reflects the degree of collection and appropriate balance for the individual horse.
  12. "Good hands" are a rarity in any discipline but are very, very highly valued in Western Dressage. The concept of a "gentle correction" followed by an immediate very slight release of rein pressure is hard to learn but when coupled with a slight half halt the result is a lovely, soft carriage of the head and neck and a happy acceptance of the Western bit.
  13. The head carriage of the Western Dressage Horse is the result of the horse carrying his entire body in balance. Overall head and neck carriage should be in relationship to the individual’s natural conformation, showing the proper flexion of the poll and lightness of mouth achieved through proper training techniques which allow the horse to move in total balance and harmony. Judges should severely penalize any horse that carries its head below the withers or behind the vertical. Pulling, jigging, gapping, teeth grinding, and any other behavior that indicates an attitude that is not happy should be severely penalized.
  14. A proper head carriage of the Western Dressage horse should give evidence of flexion at the poll with the front of the face being slightly ahead of or on a vertical plane to the ground. A horse showing at the lower levels of western dressage may carry its head somewhat ahead of the vertical showing a bit more relaxation and giving the overall impression of an individual just beginning in the discipline. The horse should be at or in front of the vertical at all times. Being behind the vertical is to be more penalized than a horse that is ahead of the vertical.
  15. The manner in which the horse carries the bit also deserves attention. Ideally, he should pick the bit up and carry it quietly and comfortably in his mouth throughout all gaits with a minimum of adjustment on his part. Many curb bits have copper rollers, or “crickets,” on the port which are to encourage a horse to use his tongue and keep a flow of saliva going to ensure a responsive mouth. When a horse uses this roller in a normal manner, he should not be penalized for being fussy or nervous in the mouth as he is doing exactly what the bit was designed for. An overly anxious horse will display more obvious symptoms than just rolling the cricket and can easily be distinguished from the horse using the cricket properly.
  16. In summation, the way the horse carries the bit and responds to the hands of the rider is of more importance than the height placement of his head and neck as it relates to his individual conformation. Horses should be faulted for gaping of the mouth, pulling or lugging down on the bit, cocking their heads in either direction, trying to evade or “spit out” the bit, constantly opening and closing the mouth, tossing the head, etc. A bleeding mouth results in elimination.
  17. SADDLERY: Bits: Snaffle bits meeting the requirements of MO132.3 may be used on any horse in Basic and Training Level tests. The rider must use two hands with a snaffle bit. The use of a curb bit meeting the requirements of MO132.2 may be used on any horse of any age at either level. Riders may use either one or both hands with the curb bit but may not switch back and forth within the same test. Hackamores and cavessons are not permitted in any level in any test.
  18. Saddle: any standard Western Stock Saddle to be used. (Silver equipment will not count over a good working outfit) Warm-up: Restrictions in warm-up areas are similar to the open Dressage (DR) Division rules other than saddlery. For specific restrictions refer to MO189 ATTIRE: Refer to Morgan Western Pleasure Appointments and Attire --MO132 TESTS: Calling of tests is permitted regardless of test or level.
 
#4 ·
I definantly love the concept...Im not sure about the bit concepts though. A western horse, IMO, should carry the bit *with* a looping rein. rule #11 states that constant light contact is necessary. Shanked bits arent made for constant contact. I think that could be troublesome.

#17 is another concern. Curb bits shouldn't really ever be ridden with two hands. And a young horse just learning the concept of 'western dressage' and collection would traditionally wear a bosal for its first year. In these rules, that wouldnt be allowed.

A very interesting concept. I would certainly love to compete!
 
#5 ·
I definantly love the concept...Im not sure about the bit concepts though. A western horse, IMO, should carry the bit *with* a looping rein. rule #11 states that constant light contact is necessary. Shanked bits arent made for constant contact. I think that could be troublesome.

#17 is another concern. Curb bits shouldn't really ever be ridden with two hands. And a young horse just learning the concept of 'western dressage' and collection would traditionally wear a bosal for its first year. In these rules, that wouldnt be allowed.

A very interesting concept. I would certainly love to compete!
From what I have heard I do not think the rules a finalized. I think these are just a basic idea what might be asked. I am with you I would like to compete in this as well.
 
#6 ·
From the sound of it, it sounds incredibly similar to how a true bridle horse is handled after it is fully trained to the spade bit. They are the most 'on the bit' horses you can find in any western discipline (good ones anyway), and you will never find a horse with a lighter mouth. While dressage is cool, IMHO, there is nothing more beautiful than a well trained bridle horse showing his stuff.

While this one is a very long way from the best I have ever seen, he is still a pretty nice horse.
 
#13 ·
Reining is not Dressage.
There are some EXTREME differences...
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And dressage is not reining. It is not done in a western saddle. What they are proposing it just ludicrous. It is not something that would be at the Olympic level. It takes a lot of work for a discipline to get there. It would like taking and saying English reining. Those rules from skimming through them are just stupid. They are trying to take a English discipline and put western take and apply English rules with bits and how a horse is to be ridden. Western horses are ridden with Leverage bits on loose rein one handed. That is the point of it all. There is a reason behind it too. Something these people seem to be forgetting. You can not slap a beak on a pig and call it a duck.
 
#16 ·
Ok at first I got visions of traditional Dressage horses and riders simply switching to a Western Saddle and still attempting Piaffes and and Canter Pirouettes, basically doing the same thing they always do...and I giggled a little.

Would high level "Western" Dressage horses and riders be expected to do maneuvers like I previously mentioned? Is that how they are setting themselves apart from reining?
 
#17 ·
From skimming what was posted they are taking western take and trying to put English riding principle in there. Like keeping the horse on the bit. This is the total opposite of what you want with a western horse. The western horse should be ridden on a loose rein and the direction of the horse should come from the seat and legs.

From reading this it almost seems like someone who has too much time on their hands and is trying to re invent the wheel.
 
#22 ·
From skimming what was posted they are taking western take and trying to put English riding principle in there. Like keeping the horse on the bit. This is the total opposite of what you want with a western horse. The western horse should be ridden on a loose rein and the direction of the horse should come from the seat and legs.

From reading this it almost seems like someone who has too much time on their hands and is trying to re invent the wheel.
Agree totally. :?
 
#19 ·
We have a fellow rider at our stables who rides western dressage with western renning not english typical two hands. He has many trophies and is a joy to watch. He uses a curb bit. If you watch some of the old Roy Rogers movies and shows you will see he also rode western dressage as well did many other past riders. We had a conversation just about that at the stable about a month agol
 
#24 ·
From watching that video that looks a lot like what I do with my young horses. Just a nice warm up before you start into the real work.
 
#25 ·
No one is reinventing the wheel western dressage goes back older then me and is not to be confused with english dressage and I'm over 60. Another thing ridding loose reing is ok in the arena but on trail it's the best way I know of if you want to get your neck broken.
 
#51 ·
Another thing ridding loose reing is ok in the arena but on trail it's the best way I know of if you want to get your neck broken.
Oh my god. I actually laughed out loud when I read this - and some of your subsequent posts. Wow, what a twisted perspective you have on horsemanship!




Anyway, I agree with what most of the reiners have said already. Why don't we also start English reining? Western jumping? English gaming? Western saddle seat? English cutting?

What's the point? Buy a new saddle if you want to do it that badly.
 
#27 ·
Hm :?. Part of western riding is knowing that your horse is trained enough to ride on a loose rein. I have been riding that way all my life and have yet to ever lose control of a horse once it was actually trained. If a horse won't respond on a loose rein, then it's a training problem, not a loose rein problem.
 
#28 ·
When on a trail all the best trainning in the world won't help you if your in an area like ours and never know what you will come up against or will come up on you including cyotes and roug stag deer. I have even seen a very trained seasoned trail horse go nuts after being stung by a bee.
 
#33 ·
I agree. I have been trail riding longer then I have been reining and all my reiners trail ride. I have always ridden with a lose rein even when I trail ride my stallion. Reins are not like brakes on a care or a steering wheel. They are just there if and when needed and the better trained the horse the less you should need them.
 
#31 ·
I ride with some slack but not so their pushing peanuts with that much slack there is to much rein to collect when trouble does strike. I never ment a tight rein just enough so they know who is in control but loose at the bit. I see so many youngens ridding with no control they would kill themselves on a trail. I'm sorry if I'm confusing everyone. It's not about having a tight hold on the bit but gathered reins.
 
#32 ·
Out here we also have to ride the roads a lot and there busy with people who like to make a lot of noise comming up on horses. Some horses even well trained will jump at an unexpected horn or backfire. I had a real nice quiet well trained Quarter the one day when we were out ridding had such a thing happen and he jumped sideways over a guard rail. If I had not had my reins collected enough we both would have been in big trouble we landed in a rocky wooded revine area and another riders horse was all over the road. This was a 4 lane highway and our horses were used to riding it every day.
 
#34 ·
Not sure how having the reins tight or with very little slack had anything to do with you controlling your horse or keeping you on him.
 
#35 ·
Eileen, we get it. When riding trail one should not be riding with reins as loose as say a WP rider might(in regards to your mention of peanut rolling). It can be unsafe in many situations and could end badly.

In a show ring however, a western horse is expected to travel nicely on a loose rein. This thread after all is arguing disciplines IN an arena, not out on trail. To me, asking for this type of contact on the bit would require Western riders trying Western dressage to stray from classic Western bits towards something made more for contact like say, an English type bit? When we start changing bits and the way we use them that blurs the line between English and Western (sorry if i make no sense, ignore me then) is this what we want?
 
#36 ·
To me, asking for this type of contact on the bit would require Western riders trying Western dressage to stray from classic Western bits towards something made more for contact like say, an English type bit? When we start changing bits and the way we use them that blurs the line between English and Western (sorry if i make no sense, ignore me then) is this what we want?
To me changing bits is not a hard or even bad thing. All my horses will work the same no matter what bit is used. That is not my objection. I do not like contact on a bit. In western is it not needed or really wanted.

Again to me this looks like re inventing the wheel. Although it might have been around for years I personally have never heard if it as a discipline. I have heard of things that fall under this name as fun shows and such to get western riders to try Dressage. Although I am sure I have not heard of every discipline that exists out there as there are so many.
 
#40 ·
Been showing stallions and mares for years never had one get loose or run off with me on them and although horses (not just stallions) get loose from where my where tied it is a very very very rear that it happens under saddle and if and when it does it does not matter how tight you have your reins.
 
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