Western Dressage ?? - Page 3

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Western Dressage ??

This is a discussion on Western Dressage ?? within the Western Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Arizona western dressage
  • Clip on horn for english saddle

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    04-28-2011, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by Hijack    
Oh dear..I want to put his hand lower and give that horse some slack. It'd be different if it was in a saddle but that can't be fun for the horse. There is a lot of difference in contact in a snaffle and contact like that in a curb.
That is just it. They are trying to do something in western tack that was designed to be done in English tack.

It is like saying I am going to go rope a cow in English tack and call it English roping or say with cutting.
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    04-28-2011, 02:30 PM
Scout, thank you for educating me about a bit more of the English world .

I don't like the looks of the horse in that video at all. It looks tense and the movements look pretty shoddy to me.

One thing I was thinking about the other day is the basest differences in English and Western riding that goes even beyond the tack and all that. Most folks who ride English; whether it be jumping or dressage or XC, want elevation and suspension in their horses. They want them to be what I consider "above" the ground.

On the other hand, most folks who ride western want their horses flatter and lower, ready to suck down into the ground for a hard stop or a quick turn or in preparation for the force of a cow hitting the end of a rope. Taking a western horse and giving it that "above the ground" movement defeats the entire purpose of having a western horse.
    04-28-2011, 02:32 PM
His condescension is very irritating. I've had a whopping THREE lessons in western riding. 3! The first lesson, how were turns taught?

Three steps:
1 - Seat
2 - Leg
3 - Reins (if needed)

And I was told from lesson 1 (and in both following lessons) that the goal is for step 3 to be unneeded.

So this guy wants to show that in 'western dressage', you can turn a horse using your seat...right. I was doing that in lesson #1 of basic western riding. Not by tilting in, though, but by twisting the hip a little - basically just turn my body a little to look in the direction we are about to turn. Leg to tighten, if needed.

Also, he showed the 'western rider' moving the hip by leaning forward and pushing with the leg just in front of the horse's rear hip. Anyone do that? I don't. I move my leg back a couple of inches, but then, my leg is already a little forward of what would be appropriate for real dressage riding. I sure as heck don't lean way forward as if I'm trying to scratch my horse's hip with my heel.

Again, it comes across to me as someone with a dressage background who doesn't want to understand western riding...just look down on it. He ought to come out to Arizona and take a single lesson in western riding before commenting on how western riders do stuff. OK, he could probably stop in Arkansas and take a single lesson in western riding.

Reining, OTOH, uses some of the same concepts as found in dressage, but adapts them to the western tradition and tack. It accepts the history of western riding instead of rejecting it.
    04-28-2011, 02:57 PM
    04-28-2011, 03:06 PM
I love that video!
    04-29-2011, 10:22 PM
I think we kinda need to look back in history alittle here and look at where western riding as we know it came from. The western saddle and the western style of riding we see know has evolved over the years. It all started with the mexican and Spanish Vaqueros. These were guys that were hired to work the land owners cattle. Or what most of us would call "cowboys". Now these Spaniards derived this style of riding from a basis from dressage. That is what they were trained in because that is what was ridden in Spain. They took the best of the dressage stuff and applied it to working cows. Through the years some things have been added and somethings have been discarded. It was all what worked for working cows, and evetually you end up with what we know now as western riding. Then It got splintered up into the speacialty events and Specialized horses..
It looks like this fella is just trying to fix something that really isn't broken. If you watch anyone that really works in the old californio, vaquero style. You will see this typw of stuff. However it is stuff that applies to cow work.
This is kind of a cool link that explains the vaquero style far better than I ever could. You will see some of the stuff looks similar but it is geared toward working cows, and when I say working cows I mean reall working them. Not just cutting in a show or rodeo style roping.

    04-29-2011, 10:37 PM
Oh , there is one other thing I would like to point out. In the first video he said it himself. "I've been looking for a niche in the western world". I think it is just a catch phrase that is starting to catch on. Like oh I don't know," natural horsemanship" . Truely gifted horseman have been working in that natural horsemanship for ever but it's been just in the last 10-20 years it's really taken of with a title. Just My 2 cents worth.
    04-29-2011, 11:28 PM
"One of the OR cowboys posed on his white pony with the herd in the distance. OR Ranch, Arizona., 1909"

A day herder keeping an eye on the grazing herd. LS Ranch, Texas, 1907

Erwin E. Smith Collection Guide | Collection Guide
    04-29-2011, 11:35 PM
Why does everyone consider reining equivalent to dressage? I am just curious to have the paralells pointed out :)
    04-29-2011, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
That is just it. They are trying to do something in western tack that was designed to be done in English tack.

It is like saying I am going to go rope a cow in English tack and call it English roping or say with cutting.
I think we should start roping cows in English tack, call it English roping and market a special clip on saddle horn specifically for English roping to be used with their current English saddle.... hahahahaha

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