Western Dressage - Arabian Horse Assoc - Page 6 - The Horse Forum

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post #51 of 96 Old 07-10-2013, 06:30 PM
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I've seen a lot of dramatic pictures of Rolkur but I have yet to see someone actually do it in real life.
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post #52 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 06:13 AM
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Go to he warm up arenas at shows. And someone did one at the last Olympics.
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post #53 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 09:53 AM
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I don't doubt that people do it (there are idiots out there for sure), but it's certainly not universal. If it is, I must have missed that lesson. Perhaps that's because I'm seeking after "classical" dressage not "modern" dressage. (I know we can argue about the words but that's the simplest way to separate the two at the moment.) I hope that western dressage will model itself after the "classical" not the "modern" style dressage.
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post #54 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 11:09 AM
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I guess I just don't see the issue with Western Dressage. I'm not Pro or Anti Dressage. My trainer showed upper levels of Dressage for decades and is even a consultant for the whatever national Dressage group there is. Can you tell I'm not a Dressage rider? Lol. She's written articles for magazines and had a book covering biomechanics. She's ridiculously intelligent and understands from the inside out how horses and riders work together. Even she is encouraging me to try out Western Dressage (and I also have a Dressage saddle from my days of jumping/Dressage lessons). I figure if she's fine with it, then it can't be all that bad. I have looked over the rules and horses can be shown in snaffle or curb bits. There's no reason curb shanks would be parallel to the ground is someone knows how to ride/show Western in a curb. Why can't there be a loose rein light contact? I've seen it plenty in Western riding. Why is everyone assuming shanks pulled straight back? Why does everyone see Western and assume contesting, reining, etc?

Maybe because I didn't grow up around that stuff it isn't the first that comes to mind. I hear Western and I think Arabian Western pleasure or trail riding. That's what I was exposed to for a decade. I hear Dressage and I think classical because I wasn't familiar with modern ways. I didn't know how rough things have gotten until I started working with my trainer and she would tell me things.
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post #55 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 07:25 PM
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I guess I just don't see the issue with Western Dressage. I'm not Pro or Anti Dressage. My trainer showed upper levels of Dressage for decades and is even a consultant for the whatever national Dressage group there is. Can you tell I'm not a Dressage rider? Lol. She's written articles for magazines and had a book covering biomechanics. She's ridiculously intelligent and understands from the inside out how horses and riders work together. Even she is encouraging me to try out Western Dressage (and I also have a Dressage saddle from my days of jumping/Dressage lessons). I figure if she's fine with it, then it can't be all that bad. I have looked over the rules and horses can be shown in snaffle or curb bits. There's no reason curb shanks would be parallel to the ground if someone knows how to ride/show Western in a curb. Why can't there be a loose rein light contact? I've seen it plenty in Western riding. Why is everyone assuming shanks pulled straight back? Why does everyone see Western and assume contesting, reining, etc?

Maybe because I didn't grow up around that stuff it isn't the first that comes to mind. I hear Western and I think Arabian Western pleasure or trail riding. That's what I was exposed to for a decade. I hear Dressage and I think classical because I wasn't familiar with modern ways. I didn't know how rough things have gotten until I started working with my trainer and she would tell me things.
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Loose rein light contact is fine. Every professional horseman/cowboy I know rides with it. Certainly none ride with the droopy reins I've seen in western pleasure classes.

My irritation comes from seeing curbs ridden on contact with two hands. That always indicates a lack of training. Why on earth would a western rider need both hands on the reins? Even when starting horses the use of a second hand on the reins is to reinforce the neck reining cue. Even both hands are going to be managing the reins, lose the saddle horn, because you sure aren't going to be tying on to anything! You also won't be needing the large tree of a western saddle, which is necessary to disperse the force when roping or dragging.

Western riding is a functional discipline. The rider needs a hand free to work. Horses that work are not ridden on collection for hours on end. They move more naturally than in a show ring frame. This is because the western horse covers ground. Real ground. And has to be able to use it's body in the way it was designed to move over country.

And, yes, a well-trained western horse will move into what appears to be dressage/show ring collection for certain movements when working cattle, they can be cued to move into that collection, but they will be asked to for only brief periods. Then they are encouraged to return to their more relaxed state.
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post #56 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 07:55 PM
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boots, I often ride with two hands...and slack in the reins. I started riding with 2 hands, and it feel really weird to my balance to put one hand on my thigh. I've been putting my free hand on the horn, which at least keeps the balance I feel with both hands forward. It isn't right, but that is what I find hardest about riding with one hand - it just feels unbalanced to me.

Yes, a training issue. And I have so many......but I guess that just means I need to ride more!

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post #57 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 08:06 PM
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boots, I often ride with two hands...and slack in the reins. I started riding with 2 hands, and it feel really weird to my balance to put one hand on my thigh. I've been putting my free hand on the horn, which at least keeps the balance I feel with both hands forward. It isn't right, but that is what I find hardest about riding with one hand - it just feels unbalanced to me.

Yes, a training issue. And I have so many......but I guess that just means I need to ride more!


And may you never have the need to ride less! Less = . More = !
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post #58 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 10:22 PM
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Please don't rely on "pictures" to make judgments about what Western dressage or any dressage is supposed to be like. Photographers are looking for the most dramatic pose, not the most common or accepted one.
I wasn't basing my opinion on a few photographs, but rather a lot of videos of the pros doing demonstrations as to what WD is. And everyone had two hands on a shank bit that was parallel to the ground.
Just not my thing. Probably not the horse's mouth thing either.
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post #59 of 96 Old 07-11-2013, 10:24 PM
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boots, I often ride with two hands...and slack in the reins. I started riding with 2 hands, and it feel really weird to my balance to put one hand on my thigh. I've been putting my free hand on the horn, which at least keeps the balance I feel with both hands forward. It isn't right, but that is what I find hardest about riding with one hand - it just feels unbalanced to me.

Yes, a training issue. And I have so many......but I guess that just means I need to ride more!

I don't think you look bad. Loose rein, loose shank.
I had (probably have again as I haven't rode in almost a year!) an issue with leaning forward too much and I tended to make my horses use their shoulders more then their hind end, which was the exact opposite of what I wanted.
My old trainer had me reach back to the back of the saddle to keep me upright. And cutters hang onto their horn all the time. LOL
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post #60 of 96 Old 07-12-2013, 02:23 PM
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I guess I am in the why??? Club...it seems that western and dressage really don't go together --

And, as to the picture of the team ropers used as a "harsh" example of using a curb -- the horse in question's mouth isn't gaping open(as alot of dressage horses do - even in a snaffle), which tells me that he is only using the needed amount of pressure to set the horse for the upcoming corner...it's a lot to ask of a horse - sit in a box, waiting to burst out at full speed, outrun the cow in order to put the roper in the proper position, then hold that speed while the roper throws the loop, THEN slow the cow to break it's momentum, while putting more weight on the hind end in order to make a smooth left turn....so, unless you rope, please don't comment and use pictures about stuff you know nothing about!
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