Western horse head position. - Page 3
   

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Western horse head position.

This is a discussion on Western horse head position. within the Western Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

     
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        03-17-2010, 11:57 PM
      #21
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Honeysuga    
    ^^That is the movement yes, but it is not 100%, or even close for that matter. They seem to be working on it though. And I agree with SorrelHorse too, BTW. Don't whine because you don't place by doing the right thing, just be patient, respect your horse,continue to follow the rules and ask for proper movement, and hope the right thing comes back into vogue.
    Glad to hear the "movement" is at least happening. But, I am not one to stand by and hope it comes back into vogue either. Things get changed becuase we make them change. I say stand up for your " doing the right thing", let those in charge know what the majority wants and remind them of the rules that are written on how it should be. There is nothing wrong with fighting for what is right, or what you feel is right.
    On the other hand, IF a horse carries his head that low NATURALY, then it is the natural set for that horse, others should not be forced into that set, nor judged down becuase their " natural" set is different than others'.

    Any WP judges out there care to tell me why they look for that? Or if they judge down or not due to the head set.?
         
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        03-18-2010, 12:02 AM
      #22
    Green Broke
    They don't look for it, they just judge what they have been brought. If every horse in a class is incorrect, they stil have to give a first second and third... Just how it goes.
         
        03-18-2010, 12:50 AM
      #23
    Trained
    As I have said many times on this forum, the really atrocious part of WP is the gates the horses are forced into. Now many of the WP riders on hear will tell you that it is getting better and horses are moving freer but the world champion horses are still dragging a hind leg at a "lope" and making a mess of a trot as well. Judges don't have to give any ribbons if they don't want to. If I went to judge a class and I called for a lope and felt like no horse actually did it I would disqualify the whole class. Chances are really good that would be the last show that I ever judged but it would make a memorable statement. If I were to show in a WP or trail class I would make sure that I recorded the entire thing and if I felt that the winner should not have won I would take it up with the judge and the show commitee. It would be hard to argue with that kind of evidence.
         
        03-18-2010, 03:01 AM
      #24
    Green Broke
    The drag leg thing I totally agree with, someone posted the WC on another thread saying oooh, she looks natural and free and collected... she looked like Igor dragging her leg behind her to have it on the ground for balance, lurching forward in that pitiful gait... hey, a new name for it instead of "lope your horses please" it should be "LURCH your horses please" more accurate anyway.
         
        03-18-2010, 03:46 AM
      #25
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thunderhooves    
    Its not all western. I don't have their head as ow, as I don't do WP. I just trail ride a gymkhana.

    I rode a WP horse one time with a WP instructor, while my mare was on stall rest with a splint bone. Needless to say, key word is [B]once[B]. Never did that again. It's not even very pleasure-ful. Their lope is all weird and funny, and you have to concentrate so much at home when you practise to keep them going at a good pace and their heads low and such. I don't see the "pleasure" in that. Plus the position the rider has to be in all the time is uncomfy, at least for me. The horse and rider both usually look stiff/rigid. Just MHO.

    I find [B]my western pleasure as "western fun". Its just hopping on and riding for fun. Lol. I mean, I think its the AQHA/APHA WP that's so messed. Compare AQHA WP:

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3579/...c8bd30a5e1.jpg

    With this:
    http://www.ladyluckranch.com/horses/roxie/roxie600.jpg

    Its amazing. Which one looks more beautiful and pleasure-ful?

    Plus, it just doesn't look comfy for the horse. Now, it may be entirely different, but that what it looks like, even if its not true.
    EDIT
    Look at the first 2 min of this vid:
    YouTube- AQHA Western Pleasure Video
    The lope on this morgan looks UGLY:
    YouTube- morgan stallion western pleasure - Baccarat's Visionary

    I guess the point is to be slow, but I guess it doesn't have to be pretty.....
    I don't know about everyone else, but I would rather have my trail horse move like the Morgan in the video than the Quarter Horse in the video. She's not as bad as some, but the Morgan looks like he has a lot more impulsion from behind and would be a blast to ride. You would feel like you had some horse power under you. I guess that's what bothers me about the WP QH's, they move like they only 1/4 the horse power.
         
        03-18-2010, 03:53 AM
      #26
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thunderhooves    
    Oh ya. You can see the "smoothness" in this lope*eye roll*
    YouTube - This Invitations Fancy
    God that's an awful lope. If one of my horse's moved like that I would wear some spurs and kick them right out of it. Or retire them as a lawn ornament. I wouldn't want a $500 trail horse moving like that. Is it so awful for a horse to MOVE? I don't mean be disobedient, but actually move out a little? With some impulsion from behind?

    I would like to see western pleasure more like reining horses. You can leave out the sliding stops and the spins, but seriously, let the horses canter normally!
         
        03-18-2010, 08:45 AM
      #27
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaintsPwn    
    Or perhaps she doesn't, and she's being ignorant like most of the people who are bashing the same thing over and over and over and over again.

    Horses never look like they're enjoying themselves in dressage either, yet no one dares to bash the cranked nose band, double bridle, tail swishing discipline.

    Why was this thread even started? TO bash. That's why. Just like so many others, and honestly I'm sick of it.
    I'm not really sure why you felt the need to put that statement out there the way you did, but since you did, I'd like to let you know that I took a great offense to it. I feel that you typed that statement just to get a rise out of me and turn this thread into a hot topic so that it can quickly be moderated, closed, and possibly removed.

    My trainer is a very good person. She has been in the AQHA Circuit for quite some time now, that's why she knows the tricks. She is not showing it to me and bashing. I am pointing things out to her and asking...why do they do that? And she explains it. The pro's and the cons. She is just not the kind of trainer that will go to some of those extremes.

    Why are any of these threads ever started? Sometimes they are actually started because someone really truley has a question. Not everyone has ill-thoughts when the post topics.

    As for dressage, what does that have to do with this thread? Absolutely nothing, other then the fact that you yourself know that some of these methods exist and you are trying to point out the fact that it's not just this discipline. We got that. EVERY discipline has it's skeletons.
         
        03-18-2010, 11:22 AM
      #28
    Foal
    I have a drive to know why things are the way they are. At my next show I will ask the judges why they place horses the way they do and see what they have to say. As a current college students ( RN, BSN, forensic nursing) I love to use the " I am doing a paper on" line and they seem to respond favorably. I am not out to bash anyone or anything, simply to gain a better understanding of why people to the things they do and follow trends IF they feel they are not so proper. It is more of a research into the thinking patters of a person than the head set of a horse ( I suppose). If I can get one [judge] to question the practice and make they ask themselves " why DO I judge that way?" Then.....
         
        03-18-2010, 12:23 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Peetz    
    I have a drive to know why things are the way they are. At my next show I will ask the judges why they place horses the way they do and see what they have to say. As a current college students ( RN, BSN, forensic nursing) I love to use the " I am doing a paper on" line and they seem to respond favorably. I am not out to bash anyone or anything, simply to gain a better understanding of why people to the things they do and follow trends IF they feel they are not so proper. It is more of a research into the thinking patters of a person than the head set of a horse ( I suppose). If I can get one [judge] to question the practice and make they ask themselves " why DO I judge that way?" Then.....
    I've spent lots of time in the middle of the ring next to the judges & have asked this same question. The judges have always been very informative & make it easy to understand.

    I think you will find out that the judges do not really consider the headset of the horse in their placings. They look at how the horse moves, how broke it is, how responsive to the rider it is, etc. The headset is only one small part of the whole picture that the judge sees. What does the judge do if the head is in an ideal position, yet the horse picks up the wrong lead? Breaks gait? Has a rider that is hindering the horse? There will be another horse in the class that might have a lower headset, but had a flawless performance by a welll-seasoned rider that will have to be placed ahead of the horse with the more ideal headset position.

    WP riders make it look easy, what ever it is that they do. But if you were really going to give WP a shot, you'll find out it's a whole different story when you set out to get your horse ready for a WP class. I have a feeling if some of the people that have posted on this thread & the other WP "bashing" threads truly give WP a try, they will find a whole new appreciation for it. It's like your mama should have told you when you were growing up: "Don't knock it til you try it."



    <Now I'm going out to ride my 3 yr old who WANTS to hang his head at his knees & I have to constantly remind him to pick it up and at least carry it level.>
         
        03-18-2010, 12:24 PM
      #30
    Trained
    Good idea, Peetz. I might have to do that too. Post your results so maybe we can shed some light on this god-awful thing.
         

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