Western Pleasure from the judges POV. - Page 4

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Western Pleasure from the judges POV.

This is a discussion on Western Pleasure from the judges POV. within the Western Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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        02-11-2010, 07:25 PM
    Green Broke
    I never said I still do not like it, never once, I am happy it is changing, I was just pointing out what I saw on the world congress mare, was I wrong? I was not bashing at all. I have not been given one bit of education, I have been given excuses and "you do not understand so I will not try to tell you".

    I did not want anyone to say anything to this article, just to read it and be a little more informed, since most of you will only give opinion, I thought I would go and find an article that clearly illustrated that the judges are indeed trying to make a change.

    But here you come along again just bashing me because I do not see what you do instead of addressing What I see. If you will really look at my critique of her there is absolutely no bashing, but what I honestly see in relation to normal equine movement and soundness...

    I feel bad that there is so much bashing of WP. Whether deserved or not, but how can you expect that to change if you just throw your hands up and Say screw it, or give a biased opinion instead of actually trying to be helpful?
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        02-11-2010, 08:09 PM
    Well, ask a question and you will recieve an educated answer I'm sure... but you originally just posted an article... no questions....

    So what do you want to know about western pleasure?

    By the way; there are different opinions on collection and what makes a horse collected. I think western pleasure horses are very collected, so please don't say "they don't look collected" becuase that is an opinion also; just like collection is and all I can answer to that is "yes, they are collected" becuase I have ridden them before and I have felt uncollected wp horses vs collected ones. They may not be what you picture as your ideal collected horse.... again, to each there own.
        02-11-2010, 08:58 PM
    Super Moderator
    I started out in dressage and moved on to hunt. I rode hunt for a good 20 years and switched to western pleasure and aqha style english. I personally like it much more. It wasn't until I made the switch that I learned how little I knew. I am really enjoying myself.

    I love my horse very much. I bred my mare specifically to get myself a western pleasure horse. My mare has Impressive bloodlines and yes, she's HYPP/NN. I bred to an Impressive stud as well. I like the Impressive line. I like western pleasure horses. I don't mind a port bit, I like a horse that moves from the hind end.

    I love the sport, I love my horse. I'm not sure why this week turned into bash the quarter horses with the "why do you call them AQHA's and then the frame and the judges and this and that..."

    Bash away. You won't change my opinion. :)
        02-11-2010, 09:32 PM
    Green Broke
    I am glad you are so passionate and happy in your passion Farmpony. IMO your horse Riley(?) looks amazing and has a lovely frame and to me he truly does collect(in just the few pics I have seen of him)in the classical sense. I am glad all the bashing does not bother you, that is what happens when you are secure in what you do, major kudos.

    FlyinSoLow, I have been doing a ton of research lately since starting this thread to be more specifif and realize that WP horses have their own definition of collection, that it is nothing like conventional collection, and I am fine with that because now I know after looking for a while that that is what thy mean when they say collected, not that the horses have "true" collection as in
    "collection - when the rider balances the driving (forward) and restraining aids on a horse. This causes the horse's frame to become compacted, the horse light on it's feet and supple in hand. The baseline is shortened, the shoulder is raised, the croup is lowered and the head is held on the vertical. The horse works off it's hind end, where it's hind end does much of the work."

    ,and that is what my problem was, I did not understand that they did not mean this kind of collection, but their own "brand" and that is how they are suppose to move. I think more the defensive from your side came maybe from thinking I belong to a particular discipline and was comparing to that discipline, and that is not true. I do not have a "discipline" and was just comparing to the definitions of the specific terms, but WP has a dictionary all its own.

    I still have a slight issue with the dragging toes and heavy-ish forehand, but that is WP and that is how they are supposed to be and how all the horses look, nothing to bash. Consider me educated and not a basher. I really do appreciate the level of discipline that it required to move as they do. I just wish you would have been more willing to clarify what I observed, but it is ok, I realize how aggravating it can be to have to constantly deal with the true bashers...

    I apologize that this thread turned out as it did, I did not mean it to be so, I really did want a bit of education to happen to help with the bashing...
        02-11-2010, 10:09 PM
    Green Broke
    I loved the video of the chestnut mare - in my opinion, that mare looks like a pleasure to ride. The second video posted pretty much compounded exactly what I dislike about WP. Unless stock horses are mimicking TWH, I'm pretty sure a bobbing head at the canter means lameness in most circles.

    But that's just my humble opinion. I don't like it, but WP people aren't hurting nothing, so what's the big deal? I'm not really aware of any websites dedicated to keeping WP horses sound. I don't much often hear in the news how WP horses are going to slaughter by the hundreds. Heck, if it weren't for everyone commenting about how much they dislike the WP horses, I doubt any of us would notice them at all!
        02-12-2010, 12:12 AM
    Green Broke
    I agree macabre... It has kinda been blown way out of proportion on here lately.. I feel like I had a part, but it is not like they are BL's or anything, aside from the personal opinions, there really isn't much to complain about with them, the horses arent outright being abuse and aside form a few bad eggs, it seems a bit more wholesome and horse friendly than other current trends in the horse showing industry.
        02-12-2010, 11:42 AM
    Super Moderator
    Thanks honeysuga...

    We aren't the big winners in the classes, we are usually coming in lower end of the class, but at least we are placing. Our jog is natural but Ri does not have a natural lope so we will never win a class. I tried to "force" it but it became a broken four beat heavy on the forehand mess. He looked broken so I opted to stay on the "mediocre" end of the spectrum and aim for a forward moving lope.... :(
        02-12-2010, 12:20 PM
    Believe me, my ideal horse is one that can jump mondays, trail ride tuesdays, rope cows wednsdays, western pleasure thursdays, dressage fridays, cut saturdays..... you get the point....

    If you want to win, you just can't (although its common now for trainers to hit the trails which is awsome). For me, its never about winning, and I refused to subject my horse to the fake 4-beating lope... but I do wish I would have a horse that I could compete in Reining and Western Pleasure the same day with and do well in both classes.

    FarmPony; my old instructor had a mare with an AMAZING little lope but her jog kept them from placing really well... when she would get to slow she just looked crappy, so they just stayed on the fast end. They did 'well' in their classes but never won. In the end she had a happy horse though and that is what counted for her too!

    Also if you start a horse and it just isn't taking to western pleasure in any way shape or form you have to be responsable and go in another direction. We get a lot of horses that may be bred and built for it... but the personality isn't there, they would rather do somthing else; so we switch gears. Sadly; some owners refuse to see that thier horse is unhappy and they force the issue. That is when you get into trouble.

    But a lot of people think just becuase they have a horse that it should be built and have the peronality to do anything, and that just isn't true.
        02-12-2010, 02:19 PM
    Super Moderator

    That's funny about your instructors horse. Mine has a KILLER jog. He placed 2nd out of 25 in an open walk/jog AQHA class. He is only 3 so I think in time he will have an acceptable lope, I just don't want to push him too hard because I want him to be my forever horse... He has a "good" english trot and a great english Canter so, although western is what he's bred for, he's placing higher in the english. He'll probably make an ok all around horse in the long run. We tried a few equitation classes the last couple shows and we actually placed higher end of the class. I'm thinking about trying some trail classes as well...

    But like you said, it's about the happy horse and the happy rider... not the big wins... (Although it would be neat!)
        02-12-2010, 02:58 PM

    My instructors horse was a Skippa Star bred mare. She was of a much bigger build than the other western pleasure horses but she matured physically and mentally faster than a lot of the other youngsters. She was a bit long in the back, and she was (sadly) a big girl on little feet, but it made her move kind of like a ballerina.
    But in her 2-3 year old years is when she did her best. I think it could be becuase she was more mature physically than the others.. she is 18 years old and still sound and happy to work, but my instructor doesn't show anymore. The mare is a lesson horse and does around 3- hour long each lessons a day in the summer. She has always been sound and barefoot, but she needs boots to trail ride.. **** little feet :roll:.

    I try to get out and ride my horses as much as possible outside the arena, and whatever I want to show in I try not to burn out in. I just go out and ride, I try to mix things up a lot, then when we have too I will buckle down and practice. But when doing Western Pleasure, like everything else, you can just ride wp, wp, wp... you need to mix it up.

    Really, I love my western horses; when in the arena I tend to ride my horses like they are going to be professional reiners (even if they aren't, and I couldn't make them one on my own anyway!) but doing 'baby' roll backs, lead changes, getting a great stop, and doing circle after circle seems to keep my horses light and fresh. I HATE rail work, and unless I'm showing I refuse to ride on the rail .

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