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Why do western saddles hurt?

38K views 101 replies 41 participants last post by  DraftyAiresMum 
#1 ·
I've wondered this for years. Every single last western saddle I have ever ridden in hurts me in some way. Usually, I get quarter-sized bruises on my butt where my seat bones are. Other times, my legs or lower back will hurt. I've tried sitting back on my seat pockets and I've tried sitting more forward, like you would in an English saddle. Half the time when I climb down from a western saddle, I can barely stand, much less walk.

The thing is, I've ridden in at least a dozen different western saddles. From my best friend's Circle Y Park and Trail with a ridiculous amount of padding in the seat, to an old slick seat roping saddle that belonged to my old BO.

The closest I've come to a comfortable (for me) western saddle was my friend's ridiculously heavy show saddle. No idea what brand, but I gave pics of me in it (it was too small, though).

Here's the kicker, though. My trail saddle is an Aussie saddle with a slick, non-suspended seat and it is the most comfortable saddle I have ever sat in. I can go for a long trail ride with zero pain and full mobility at the end. The only thing that has come close to my Aussie saddle was the authentic Peruvian saddle I rode my friend's Peruvian paso in.

So, is it me...or the saddle?

I'm going to be showing Aires western this summer, so I need to figure out how to not be dying 5 minutes after climbing into the saddle.
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#71 ·
But that leaves the problem of not having a saddle at all. I can ride bareback when we're just schlepping around the arena, but if I want to show (which I really do), I need some type of saddle. And I can't ride English (yet).

I'm not trying to be argumentative or play Devil's advocate. I'm genuinely frustrated by this. I would love to save up and order a custom Corriente, since I've heard so much good about them. But, the FQHB on my western saddle I have now just fit Aires with my 1/2" Diamond wool pad. If he grows any more (and he will), it won't fit. At this point, I more care about the saddle fitting him than me. It's just frustrating that I can't find anything that works for us both.

Sorry. This turned into a rant. I'm just generally frustrated with everything right now. Yesterday, I contemplated putting my horse up for sale and just running away. But I can't, and won't, do that. Just feeling a little overwhelmed and this whole saddle thing is just the icing on the cake.
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#75 ·
...I'm not trying to be argumentative or play Devil's advocate....But, the FQHB on my western saddle I have now just fit Aires with my 1/2" Diamond wool pad. If he grows any more (and he will), it won't fit...
Here are the standard trees made by Steele. They make for more than this, but these fit the large majority of horses somehow:

"J - Semi-Quarter Horse (Semi)/Arabian (Arab) - Steeper front and rear rafter angle and closer-spaced bars relative to Standard Quarter Horse fit when positioned at standard spread. In addition, sufficient bow (rocker) enables this fit to conform well to the short Arabian back having a narrow wither dropping off quickly to the shoulder.

D - Standard Quarter Horse (SQ) - Approximate 92º front rafter angle. Good front flare, bow and upturned tails to avoid bridging and bar edge pressure points.

TF - Full Quarter Spread (FQ) - Same bow (rocker) and wind (twist) as 'D' fit with an additional 1/2” front spread ('GW+1/2' or '+1/2') than standard.

NE - Straight-Back Quarter (SBQ) - Similar flare and rafter angle to the 'D' fit with much less bow. Developed for straighter backed, well collected horses. Also works well for mules that require a flatter front rafter than the 'SE'.

SE - Mule (Mule) - Reduced bow and steeper front rafter angle to conform to the distinctive mule back. Helps prevent the back of the saddle rocking up when cinched, which creates tremendous pressure under the stirrup leather when the rider's weight pushes it back down.

HA - Draft Horse (DH) - Approximate 105º front rafter angle. Flatter rear rafter also and less bow for broad, flat backs with little dip.

LT - Gaited Horse (GT) - Steeper rear rafter angle, additional front flare and more bow relative to the 'D' fit.

PW - Walking Horse (WH) - Similar to LT with steeper front rafter angle.

AW- Full Wither (FW)/Arabian (Arab) - Flared out front and rear to allow for full or mutton wither with no pockets. The resulting bow enables this fit to conform well to the short Arabian back having wide withers rounding out into the shoulder. The AW has also been found to work for more dipped-back draft horses."

Steele Saddle Tree LLC - Fit To The Horse

Here are the saddle tree templates used by Horse Saddle Shop, superimposed:



Notice the angle of the bars themselves - the flatness - varies on average by 4 deg between semi-QH and full QH, and another 4 deg for 'very wide' - using averages from different makers. The variation in a FQHB is +/- 4 deg, depending on who makes it.

Of course, trees vary by more than that. Here is a picture of a D tree fiberglass form with a flatter SE:



With the flatter SE, the tree bridges on Mia enough for me to slide my fingers underneath it at the middle! The D has a bit too much "rock" but the SE has too little for her - and that is worse than too much.

However, there are only a handful of standard sizes to choose from. While your horse may get wider horizontally, do you think he is going to change shape to a flatter angle? If he just gets bigger horizontally but doesn't get flatter, then shouldn't that simply result in the saddle riding higher (more wither clearance)?



I don't know...I'm not being a Devil's advocate either because I've shipped fiberglass forms and trees and emailed an awful lot of pictures to people who know these things, and I still don't have a good feel for it!

Could you take some pictures of how the current saddles fit him? --- WOW! You posted the pictures before I finished typing! Have you always been clairvoyant? :-p Any pictures of your horse?
 
#72 ·
I would try out as many saddles as I could at the stores, from my friends, trainer, barn, wherever. Make note of those that work for you. Maybe someone will let you test fit on Aires. Then look for one of those secondhand.

No matter which way you turn this, with a growing horse, it's going to be an expense. Keep in mind the better quality you buy, the better the resale value. I know its tough when the money just isn't there though.
 
#73 ·
Is it the angle of the bars that's an issue, or the height of the gullet? A lot of FQHB pleasure & trail saddles I've seen have a super shallow gullet space, which causes the gullet/pommel to rest on the withers and owners to think it's too wide (but the bars themselves may actually fit.) For whatever reason, the gullet tends to be higher on some ranch & barrel saddles, so that might be a good option.

Some saddle makers do carry an Extra Full QHB, which will give a wider angle to the bars. If he's really wide & stocky, you may need to look for that option. Those may have to come straight from the saddle maker, though, as few tack retailers carry special sizes. Continental Saddlery is one brand I know for sure carries an XFQHB, and the gullet/pommel has enough height to keep it from resting on the withers...
 
#74 · (Edited)
My Aussie saddle is the one that rests on his withers. It has a 6" gullet (most regular tree Aussies have a 5" gullet) and a fairly flat angle to the bars.

This is a pic of the front of my Aussie:

And closer up:


The FQHB (7" gullet) of my western saddle fits him perfectly right now with my 1/2" Diamond wool pad. The angle is correct and there is plenty of withers clearance. He moves much better in it than he does in the Aussie. It's just not comfortable for me.

The saddle that I'm looking at for when he's done growing is the Big Horn 1680/1683 (1680 is a 16" seat, 1683 is a 17.5" seat) if he needs the 8" draft gullet or the 1681, which is a 16" seat and a 7.5" haflinger gullet, if he ends up in between the 7" FQHB and 8" draft gullet.
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#77 ·
Here's the thing, bsms. I can find a FQHB saddle to fit him (for now). That's the easy part. I do, after all, live in the land of the QH. The part that's frustrating is finding a saddle that fits my fat *** and is COMFORTABLE, while still fitting the beast and that isn't going to make it so that I can't afford to eat for the next month. I've found several 17" saddles that look great and aren't too expensive...except they have semi-QH bars.

I haven't tried playing with the fit of my Aussie yet, simply because I didn't discover that the saddle was too wide until very recently. I have no idea of the manufacturer of my saddle. All I know is that it's a solid wood tree that seems oddly shaped, and the round "patch" on the front is where there was originally a horn and someone very skillfully cut it off and patched over it.

I don't have any good recent pics of just him. I have a pic of my best friend riding him bareback and of him being lunged, but that's it. I'll try to get some tomorrow.
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#78 ·
Have you tried any Thinline products, either their pad or their seat cushion? I am going to try a pad out because I heard they were excellent shock absorbers, both for horse and rider.

I finally saved up and got my first truly custom saddle though, after years and years of riding in too big hand-me-downs. I would get bruises where my hip bones sat, and my hip joints and knees would ache often. I wish I had gotten the custom YEARS sooner. So comfortable and it puts me in a good position, and FITS. No more bruises or pain. The only problem is now I can't ride in anything else again without being immediately sore xD

But for now, I would look into the Thinline and maybe it will help soften your ride and alleviate a little pain for the time being.
 
#80 ·
The most miserably uncomfortable saddle I have ever sat in (other than pancake flat cheapo school saddles) was a Stubben Tristan...ouch! AND I made the mistake of telling my wonderful, but exacting, instructor that I found the saddle harsh and so disliked the sitting trot... have you ever ridden a sitting trot with collected, regular and extended for an hour straight? OUCH!! After that, I added a sheepskin pad, and it helped alot. I then got a sheepskin pad for my very comfortable western saddle, and it is awesome.
 
#81 ·
Paige, you may end up being in the same boat as me if your monster grows any more. Like Aires, Rafe has the perfect angle that matches my FQHB saddle, but if he gets any bigger, it will be too narrow. Unfortunately, in mass produced saddles, getting a bigger gullet also generally means you get flatter bars (like the pic that BSMS posted of the drawn diagram)

Probably, if my guy gets any bigger, I'm going to have to end up going full custom, all the way down to the tree because nobody makes trees that have a 7.5-8" gullet and bars angled at FQHB :?.

As for fitting you, sorry I can't really be of more help. Only thing I can really suggest beyond OVO's mention of a saddle seat pad is looking for something with a narrow twist. Generally, those fit women better than most men's saddles. Unfortunately, adding that to your search criteria will also limit your search greatly.
 
#82 ·
Sorry, double post.

BSMS, where you start running into trouble with a horse getting too wide for the gullet you have is that it gets to a point when the saddle is "perched" up on top of their back and you lose all semblance of stability. That's what was happening with mine and why I had to get a 1/2 inch pad instead of the smushed 1 inch I was using before. I started having trouble with my saddle sliding from side to side really bad.
 
#83 ·
Jenn, I think that's the problem with my Aussie. If you look at it, tree angle is VERY flat.

Ugh. Unfortunately I'm kind of stuck with the saddle I've got for now, unless I sell it and can find something for less than I sold it for.
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#84 ·
An option for folks to consider - and it isn't entirely cheap but neither is it extremely expensive - is the Steele "Fit to Be Seen" program ( Steele Saddle Tree LLC - Fit To The Horse ). You pay some costs in shipping fiberglass forms (and sometimes trees), but you can see options made by Steele pretty easily.

When I did it, Ed Steele recommended starting the their "D" tree - their standard QH bars. After seeing pictures like this:



he recommended trying one of their lesser used trees called an "LF". After seeing pictures, he recommended telling someone like Dakota to "specify ‘LF with additional flare at front concho’ and I will modify it to create a better fit than standard."

You can see why the extra flare would be needed in this picture:



Now, have I done that? No. I talked to a forum member about having a saddle built. After looking at more trees, we settled on a fairly narrow one because Mia is 15.2 or 15.3 and 900 lbs. The fit on the narrower tree looks like this:



It probably isn't quite as close as what Steele would have made with modifications, but it is a fairly standard semi-QH saddle which should still have a lot of contact and still have enough flare not to dig in.

Steele has a lot of trees besides their standard ones, so that is an option for someone who wants a good fit but can't afford to go totally custom. I'll add that the folks at Steele were very nice to do business with.
 
#85 ·
Have you tried a Big Horn synthetic? They can be found for cheap. What you may dislike about Westerns is the "stiffness" of a western saddle. There's a lot of saddle... but with a synthetic the fenders are flexible and there seems to be less stress on the butt. LOL.
 
#86 ·
I've ridden in a synthetic once. Granted, it was an Abetta, but that one experience completely put me off synthetics. It was just as uncomfortable as a regular leather saddle, the fenders were awkward, and it put me in a horrible position.

I'm thinking I may just order a Tush Cush or somethîng similar. But then I run into the issue of it making the saddle seat smaller. My 16.5" saddle is barely big enough as it is.
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#89 ·
Western saddles come in a variety of seat styles. The twist, how flat seat is,cantle size, Horn Height etc all vary with what event saddle was designed for:D. Sounds to me the ones you found more comfortable are your more equitation seat:wink: {seen with most show saddles.}. These also usually designed to have more close contact:D I'd be trying saddle with more equitation seat or a training/work saddle :D. Different Western Saddle Types
 
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#91 ·
I've been dragged through an aligator juniper (Google those bad boys) and smacked in the face with a juniper branch that all my friends managed to duck under, but my monster was too tall for me to avoid it.
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#96 ·
The ad says it's a 16" and shows a pic of it measured as such. I've found that if it's a deeper seat, like a barrel saddle, I can get away with a 16". My flatter-seated pleasure/trail saddle is a 16.5" and it fits just right, but isn't comfortable. Someone on the previous page suggested looking at equitation-style seats, which I'm pretty sure that saddle is.

However, it's a completely moot point, as I'm no longer in the market for a saddle for the foreseeable future (at least not until I sell my Aussie and my current western).
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#100 ·
female. I like the A fork as it is easier on my hips and knees and has a high back for when I rode in the mtns. The roper i have is not real flat, not as flat as the wp show saddles, and is large enough for my behind and is good for short rides and flat trails and has some padding in the seat.
 
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