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post #81 of 85 Old 06-21-2019, 11:05 AM
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vermont
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Thatís nice you have such good memories of the farm. I like to look through old pedigrees so was curious to know what prefix they used for their program.
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post #82 of 85 Old 06-21-2019, 11:45 AM
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
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Dante- (This thread has sort of run away from me!) Our Clyde x Arabian is rather like an Arabian trapped in the body of a Clydesdale. Since she was bred to be a show cob it rather defeats the purpose because they're supposed to be solid and steady and reliable. Its one of the pitfalls of crossing drafts with hot bloods to get a Steady Eddy that a larger, taller novice could ride, it doesn't always work. We often say she's thick as a brick but she isn't. She over thinks everything, gets anxious really easily and need to process instructions very slowly to be sure she thinks they're worth the effort.
She's also got those joint problems developing and she's only ever been lightly worked because number 4 son has been away from home at college and now work more than he's been at home. People see those tree trunk legs and think they're going to be invincible. It worries me when I see heavy horses 'proving that they can jump'. Sure they can if they've a mind for it but it puts so much more pressure on them if they aren't at least fit enough for the job. Just my opinion.

Just winging it is not a plan
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post #83 of 85 Old 06-21-2019, 12:26 PM
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Toledo, Spain
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No time to read everything in detail. Just wanted to say that I love Morgans and rode mostly Morgans my whole youth growing up in New England. I have only worked with two Lusitanos here and, given the choice, would have preferred my college Morgan mare over both.

Love the videos of the "off" types, but I enjoyed the mules the most.

@AnitaAnne , note that the Lusitano in the video was 17hh, which is WAAAAAAY over the regulation standard Lusitano height for stallions of 15'3hh and 15'1 for mares. The result is a smooth horse that extends well, but loses all that flashy expression. If that is the goal, fine, but go with a more adequate breed. Or perhaps there should be two separate studbooks: the Euro-dressage Lusitano studbook (where all holds are off on size) and the traditional Lusitano studbook (the same could be said for PREs). I know that this subject comes really close to heart and perhaps I get too emotional about it, but I can't stand it when foreigners start messing with other countries' cultures. What would we Americans think if foreign breeders started modifying our beloved Morgan? or the American Saddlebred? or the Tennessee Walking Horse?
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post #84 of 85 Old 06-21-2019, 12:28 PM
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New England
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^jaydee I agree. I knew a TB x Perch that literally looked 100%Perch but her brain was 100% TB. Bred for jousting I guess...?? But while being a lovely horse I don't really see the point, she was super sweet but not really beginner safe due to her size and reactivity and had the atheltic ability of a Percheron. She was a pet and her owner loved her, but any sort of competitive future, well any horse can try but I don't think she would have gone far.

I find most hot x cold get the temperament of the hot horse and the body of the cold horse. I've seen a few that DID have a nice WB type build (though heavier then a true WB) but they are by far the minority and quite unlike a true WB. The temperament is an issue too. The nicest one I've known was a HUGE beast, sweet natured but very hot and had learned his strength. I remember leading him in one day when the wind was blowing and I've never been thrown around so much, the funny part is he wasn't even doing too much he was just huge, if he had realized how little control I had there may have been a problem, but I'm good at faking (with horses at least lmao) and he wasn't the brightest. A nice horse, his owner (young and while a good rider had barely any control of him) did cross country with him, and while he had the talent I don't think he would have made it to super high levels simply due to his size and I'd expect he would have soundness issues earlier then a smaller horse. Overall they're a mediocre mix, the nice ones have known have been the exception not the rule and most of them are more like the crazy TB with the 2500 body of a bull lol. It sounds so good on paper, but it just doesn't work, you don't just get half and half and you sure don't get to pick what you do get. I think a similar type is important for the crossbreeding like I said above with Arab x WBs, there are specific goals and because they are of a similar type those goals can be achieved. Two opposites just don't work. I saw an interesting picture awhile back of a bunch of puppies with purebred (crossbreed) parents and we aren't talking Shepherd x Malinois, we are talking like Husky x Corgi or something (I don't remember unfortunately, but- opposites). Every single puppy looked COMPLETELY different and I think some were litter mates too.

Lipizanners and I believe the other baroque types (though to a different extent) are NOT easy horses, and while they have a lot of talent for classical dressage some of that talent can hold you back, especially if you're trying to work on modern dressage for the show ring. I think the biggest problem aside from conformation is getting them to relax enough to do things right, they are so talented they can short cut and wearing them down can take the first half of the lesson, THEN you have a somewhat calm horse you can work with. I have a friend with purebred Lipizzans and she has worked with a trainer who was heavily involved in the Spanish Riding School, it's very interesting to talk to her about her lessons with him, as he is very tuned into both worlds and trying to cross the breeds over. I think a lot of these horses are "second tier" just because they have so much talent, but it's still so different from what is desired. I love to watch the vaquero riding on youtube, it's incredible!
jaydee and DanteDressageNerd like this.

Last edited by Yogiwick; 06-21-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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post #85 of 85 Old 06-21-2019, 03:12 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
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@DanteDressageNerd I currently know three Arab◊Drafts fairly well. 2 are Percheron crosses and one Belgian. He is my avatar. No joint problems in any of the three. Two middle aged (one slightly older) and one aged. The oldest is a retired dressage horse that is now used to hack out by the owner and in lessons as a schoolmaster. They all three have very distinct builds influenced by the build of the draft and refined by the Arab. All three are draft mare crossed to Arab stallion. They all three have very distinct personalities influenced by again the type of draft - farm, logging or hitch. The school master is smooth as glass. This old boy looks like a cartoon character. The horse in my avatar is catty and can bend, move and pretzel himself in ways that amaze. He is incredible on a jump course and can jump courses smaller horses have issues with. Looks like a bull in a China shop but moves like a primary ballerina. Very baroque. The third is a good all round horse. Has the best looks, could pass for a Warmblood but is meh as a ride.
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