"Throwing the Test" - Struggling to Compromise Between Classical and Modern - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 30 Old 10-25-2018, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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@Golden Horse , i suppose I just don't want to be the belligerent individual with their head in the sand refusing to consider alternatives because it is "not how its done." the only way I can prevent that is not to stick to one school too closely.


I loathe ignorant, closed-minded people and I try very hard not to be one.
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post #12 of 30 Old 10-25-2018, 07:35 PM
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CC....

I'm sorry my post was not meant to "derail" anything...
It also came across harsher than I ever wrote it to be read as...
I am very sorry....my sincerest apologies.

I got it is two different styles and I also got from your other posts and threads written that your horse is trying to tell you Tyra can not do the different styles at the same time...
It is affecting her health...
No horse, no ride...no competition...no nothing.
It is all connected if you step back and look at the large picture not a mini sized glimpse.
I can't take one from the other when you factor in your mount, Tyra...and her health issues and what this intense schooling, the pressure training is doing to her and that in turn applies more stress to you, effecting her....
Can you see the intertwined circle and now it is starting to unravel..

You need to pick one person, and stick with it.
You speak of all the research you do about this style, that style and then something else again and again...
You just don't seem to stick with anything, a direction with one trainer/instructor but bounce around and change your mind a lot..
It is great to be well versed and have knowledge but you can't apply every nuance from every different read you've done nor be swayed by a name and what they did but be swayed by the proof of what you see of their mount with them astride...
What they preach is what you should see and in dressage to me it better be flowing, poetry in motion with a soft presenting horse with great body control,....the optimum word to be though is soft and flowing a presentation.


Sorry, that is my feeling...they are entwined.
With your partner not being able to do both these different styles and stressed training you put to her...
Tyra can't do it...
...
jmo...


And now I will but out and not make more comment {I will try to stick to that, promise}

The worst day is instantly better when shared with my horse.....
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post #13 of 30 Old 10-25-2018, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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@ApuetsoT - thank you, this is a wonderful post <3

@horselovinguy , it's ok I know what you are trying to say. I wish you could say it a bit better.


Can I ask what your qualifications are regarding your observation? Mine are that she is not ornery, does not fight underneath me, and is not difficult. If she were, it would tell me she is unhappy with both methods. She is not doing that at all. In the past, she would be extremely loud about her likes and dislikes in training.


What is it that I am missing?
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post #14 of 30 Old 10-25-2018, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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I just talked to trainer 2. I told her everything I wrote in this thread and explained to her my frustrations about being coerced into the style of dressage that people think we "need to be in." She has given me some literature to read and some things to consider. We have agreed that for this show, we will focus on the training and not the scores. We could get those high scores but it would not be ethical or right to Tyra to force her to do that.


HLG you are very right. I don't think she can do both. I just wish the way Tyra likes to be ridden would be the dominant philosophy. I am fearful the judges will ping us hard because we aren't riding like IW or AVG or whohaveyou...


I just don't want people to think our low scores are a result of us having no clue ;_; I guess, in all honesty, that is what I am afraid of. I will know that 60% was earned with harmony and kindness, but someone could easily claim we somehow just weren't good enough...
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post #15 of 30 Old 10-25-2018, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thecolorcoal View Post
@Golden Horse , i suppose I just don't want to be the belligerent individual with their head in the sand refusing to consider alternatives because it is "not how its done." the only way I can prevent that is not to stick to one school too closely.


I loathe ignorant, closed-minded people and I try very hard not to be one.

But at the same time is not fair to your horse not to choose..the one thing they like is an element of consistency. There could be argued to be a fine line between putting your head in the sand, and being so open minded you don’t make a choice.

My first Dressage trainer I thought was great, even though a lot of people said she wasn’t, because I liked her, and I though5 it was right. It gradually dawned on me that I was wrong, and I changed.

My current trainer some people don’t like, because “I should be further along” but she believes in working at the pace that is right for the pair she has. It was a relief to finally riding the horse back to front, to be in a place where never a gadget is seen.

Again, surely you have enough exposure to many things you have an idea of what is right and good? If you want to explore further, do it in blocks rather than two things at once.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”
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post #16 of 30 Old 10-25-2018, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by thecolorcoal View Post
horselovinguy , it's ok I know what you are trying to say. I wish you could say it a bit better.

Can I ask what your qualifications are regarding your observation?

What is it that I am missing?
CC... I am not a eloquent speaker or writer.
I speak/write plainly and get my point across sometimes with barbs, rarely are they aimed or my hit would be deadly in intensity, promise.

Qualifications...
...
I have qualifications but let us just say, "I am observant", period.
I read what you write and how you answer, explain or refute...
I "listen" and then I listen to what the horse is telling you and how she is telling you through your words.

Have you ever gone back and read your posts, really read your posts and what they concerned...
I have a very good memory about details shared.
More than anything else I have a brain and the ability to think, question and raise awareness...

Has it ever occurred to you Tyra has been telling you, shouting at you for how long now and you, focused as you are on a goal missed it...

You care to much about what others think or say regarding you and your riding...
Learn to be true to you.
Learn to have a deaf ear and do right for you...
Learn to compete to better you and Tyra...compete against you...
Amazingly you will actually learn and excel when you use you as your competition and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks or says...
Truly, who cares...talk is cheap!

My comments you can accept or not for what it is, and that is advocating for your horse and her health.
You, her owner know with your recent threads and posts you are pushing this horse to hard, to fast and it is time to take a step back and slow it down or pay the price with Tyra forever.
Remember without Tyra you have nothing...nothing to take you down that road toward whatever goals you hold dear and with whatever trainer you're following now...
How many barns, how many share-boarders, how many trainers, how many issues, how many ongoing problems...in how long/short a period of time have you written of....
I remember those threads...
Just think about what Tyra has been telling you for quite some time now...in all her non-verbal ways she has been telling you loudly her tales of woe...

"What is it that I am missing?"
You stopped listening to your horse by listening to the chatter and noise around you, swaying you and your good common sense...
Put in some ear plugs and tune-out the noise...
You "may" need to take a back seat to your wants and concentrate on figuring out Tyra's issues, focus on Tyra and do it soon or run the risk of losing her, truth.
It is time to take a stand, make some choices and live with them for both your benefit.
You have a fine brain, now develop the backbone to go with it, to stand firm in convictions and decisions and not to worry about the fad and do what is right for you, for Tyra...

I fear I've touched a nerve...again my apologies.
I wish you the best cc...truly I do.
It is time though to act the adult not the child who is swayed by the popular kid...
Choices made, then accept the outcome from those choices... make adjustments if needed as needed, slowly so the horse can adjust and so can you without so much confusion and complications.

...I will be quiet before reporting of me by me is needed...
I bid you adieu...
hlg.
...

The worst day is instantly better when shared with my horse.....
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post #17 of 30 Old 10-25-2018, 11:16 PM
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Have not read the replies, which seem to be detailed and lengthy.



At a certain point in a horsewoman's career, she has to start making choices based on her OWN point of view. Sure, you read, you take clinics and lessons, you listen and learn, but at some point you have to say, "I think this is the best way for me and my horse".

nothing more, nothing less.


You get to the place where you know enough to be able to choose. Seems you are about there.




I've worked with conflicting trainers before. It sucks, totally sucks.

Choose and follow one path, and do it well. you may come to the place where even THAT seems wrong, but give ONE SIDE your full commitment, and it looks like you are leaning toward trainer #2.
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post #18 of 30 Old 10-26-2018, 01:00 AM
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I am not sorry to say that you are contradicting yourself. One moment you say that trainer 1 will get you the highest marks and the next that you are not competitive. I cannot be bothered to go through all your posts to find where this was written or I would quote you.
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post #19 of 30 Old 10-26-2018, 07:07 AM
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“It is a constant tug of war between winning and riding well.”

Dr. Gerd Heushchmann – a German veterinarian who worked hard to abolish rollkur – writes of this conflict in his books “Tug of War” and “Balancing Act: The Horse in Sport – An Irreconcilable Conflict?”

Differing riding styles have always existed. [The “rein yields” mentioned in the first post may be equivalent to the “descent de maines” mentioned in many riding texts.] The popularity of one methodology over another fluctuates. It can be argued that popularity influences competitive expectations. But it can also be argued that competitive expectations influence the popularity of certain methods of riding.

It is shameful if one is expected to forsake one’s values in order to win.

Training riders and horses to work in harmony.
www.quietriding.com
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post #20 of 30 Old 10-26-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by thecolorcoal View Post
What is more important? The scores or the happiness and comfort of my horse? it doesn't seem that right now, in our stage of training, we can get both.
It's not an equitation question (because your horse told you everything you need to know), it's a value question - your values. Is the horse your partner, or a tool to achieve an end? Do you accept the reality that you can cause her to suffer or to thrive, that you know which is which, and that she has no say in the matter?

To get a promotion at work, would you throw the colleague who mentored and helped you when you started under the bus?

Judging from the threads you've been posting, we are not talking about the "happiness and comfort" of your horse, we are talking about the health and life of your horse. Since that horse is your property, it is on you to assess what your values are and act according to them.

I know where mine are. My barn owns a handful of initially tense and nervous off-the-show-circuit horses, and I have had the privilege to take lessons on them - only the real purpose is not to teach me how to ride, but to teach me to allow them to relax, be comfortable, cadenced, rhythmic, and forward - even after dropping the reins to the buckle - yes, and also in a circle. To me, there is something special when the horse starts to say, "Oh yeah, this is not so bad - I don't need to fight anymore." I can't help but thinking that, when that happens, it is also prettier to look at from the sidelines.

When I stop riding, I want to be able to say that each horse I rode was a bit better off because of me: more comfortable with a rider, more confident in its environment, more athletic.

When your horse dies and all chances for change have gone, what's the regret you don't want to have?
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